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Somebody else with exceptional virus protection click this. I'm vaguely curious, but I expect my computer will come down with a nasty, SPAMmy social disease if I do.
Somebody else with exceptional virus protection click this. I'm vaguely curious, but I expect my computer will come down with a nasty, SPAMmy social disease if I do.
LOL... I tried to open it, but it wouldn't load anything...white screen.
LOL... I tried to open it, but it wouldn't load anything...white screen.
My virus protection came up with a questionable site warning then refused to load the page. While the questionable status only means they haven't proven the site, I'm taking no chances so I'm not going to circumvent the system.
What is education? To me education is both learning and proving you have learned. It is only through demonstrating what you have learned to others that you know you have learned what you needed to. The problem with self education is that you only know what you knew to teach yourself. You can totally miss the boat and never know it.
For example, I was self taught in an SQL like language several years back when I had to do some programming. I made it work and the program did what I wanted but, come to find out, I didn't have a clue as to how to program correctly in the environment. My husband now uses an SQL base to program (actually moving up from there but he's been using one for years) and I'm kind of embarassed about how I did things when I did my programming. Fortunately, someone destroyed the program so there is no evidence (not me, one of the users managed to wipe the hard drive and I told them to keep it backed up but they didn't so it's gone).
I can't count the times I thought I knew things and it turned out I knew nothing. Do that enough times and you start to realize that unless you've gone through some process to test what you know, you can't say you are educated in any area. You can know a thimble full and think you know it all.
I liken education to those little plants you buy at the nursery in the spring that are all root bound and proof of education as breaking apart their rootball. If you don't break the rootball, often they are in the same rootbound condition in the fall. They never even realized there was anything outside the edges of what used to be their pot but the one that had it's rootball broken, spreads out and realizes that there is more out there than they can ever use.
My job is to break root balls and the job of my teachers is to break my root balls .
I liken education to those little plants you buy at the nursery in the spring that are all root bound and proof of education as breaking apart their rootball. If you don't break the rootball, often they are in the same rootbound condition in the fall. They never even realized there was anything outside the edges of what used to be their pot but the one that had it's rootball broken, spreads out and realizes that there is more out there than they can ever use.
My job is to break root balls and the job of my teachers is to break my root balls .
Careful, Ivory, someone may be tempted to draw other gardening parallels not nearly so flattering.
I would, for example, feel obliged to point out that one optimally doesn't rely on container gardening at all. My preference is to know my garden intimately, to understand what it needs and what it is likely best suited for, and to plant accordingly-- while also leaving some ground fallow, and leaving yet other plots for whimsical and probably impractical projects. Those, I've found, yield a much more delightful harvest than those wee little containers from the local WalMart's garden center. Not only do I have pretty much the expected crop, but some lovely surprises, a weed or two (which may nonetheless have pretty flowers on it), and several moments of pure Zen.
Careful, Ivory, someone may be tempted to draw other gardening parallels not nearly so flattering.
I would, for example, feel obliged to point out that one optimally doesn't rely on container gardening at all. My preference is to know my garden intimately, to understand what it needs and what it is likely best suited for, and to plant accordingly-- while also leaving some ground fallow, and leaving yet other plots for whimsical and probably impractical projects. Those, I've found, yield a much more delightful harvest than those wee little containers from the local WalMart's garden center. Not only do I have pretty much the expected crop, but some lovely surprises, a weed or two (which may nonetheless have pretty flowers on it), and several moments of pure Zen.
Mileage varies, I'm sure.
I'm, specifically, comparing the uneducated to those plants in little pots. They often think they know more than they do. Many uneducated people consider themselves to be educated because they don't know there's anything outside of their pot. They have only experienced what they have experienced and have themselves convinced they don't need to experience more because they have it all figure out. Limited experience is their pot. Few of us are planted in fields. Most of us are limited to our experiences unless we seek education outside of our pot.
People compare to seedlings started in pots. It's after being transplanted that the educated realize how little they know. The uneducated continue to consider themselves to not be in need of further education. College was an interesting experience. I was sure I knew a lot more going in than I knew I knew going out. College is where I realized how little I knew. Before going to college, I was one of those people who said things like you don't need a degree to be educated The problem with being self taught is you are limted by your teacher's lack of knowledge. It's hard to go looking for information you don't even know is out there. It's really bad now that we have the internet. One skill people seem to be lacking today is how to tell a good site from a bad one. Just because something is on the internet doesn't make it true. In fact, the more they put on the internet, the less reliable it becomes so you have to be very careful what you look at. Which is one reason I kept falling back to ACT scores on the homeschooling thread. We can see actual data for that and know what we're looking at. There are countless numbers of studies that are sliced and diced to say what the author wants them to say out there.
I teach science and you would not believe the misconceptions I deal with from parents and students alike and they think they're right. I've had parents come in and argue with me armed with incorrect information from the web. UGH.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-16-2009 at 05:03 PM..
I'm, specifically, comparing the uneducated to those plants in little pots. They often think they know more than they do.
Well, here's one of our disconnects right here. I don't think education starts at 5, or 11, or 18. Education starts at birth-- and is never really finsihed. No one is done being "educated" until the moment of death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Few of us are planted in fields. Most of us are limited to our experiences unless we seek education outside of our pot.
Well, yeah, but homeschoolers are growing in numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
People compare to seedlings started in pots. (Not of you don't grow them in pots.) It's after being transplanted that the educated realize how little they know. The uneducated continue to consider themselves to not be in need of further education. College was an interesting experience. I was sure I knew a lot more going in than I knew I knew going out. Oh, one of those. I had a roommate like that. Your name isn't Kelly, is it? <shudder> College is where I realized how little I knew. Before going to college, I was one of those people who said things like you don't need a degree to be educated The problem with being self taught is you are limted by your teacher's lack of knowledge. It's hard to go looking for information you don't even know is out there. It's really bad now that we have the internet. One skill people seem to be lacking today is how to tell a good site from a bad one. Just because something is on the internet doesn't make it true. In fact, the more they put on the internet, the less reliable it becomes so you have to be very careful what you look at. Which is one reason I kept falling back to ACT scores on the homeschooling thread. We can see actual data for that and know what we're looking at. There are countless numbers of studies that are sliced and diced to say what the author wants them to say out there.
Silly Ivory. ALL data are spun to support authorial bias-- often by several opposing authors. Try getting in a mercury/autism debate some time and it will illustrate that point nicely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I teach science and you would not believe the misconceptions I deal with from parents and students alike and they think they're right. I've had parents come in and argue with me armed with incorrect information from the web. UGH.
Yeah, yeah, and I had a sixth grade teacher who thought communism and socialism were synonymous. Would have been okay except she taught social studies, and threatened to fail Jill XXXX and me for arguing with her and proving her wrong in class. Some people are complete idiots, no matter where on the education scale they lie. That's not limited to teachers, homeschoolers, or any other group, by the way-- it's the human condition.
Well, here's one of our disconnects right here. I don't think education starts at 5, or 11, or 18. Education starts at birth-- and is never really finsihed. No one is done being "educated" until the moment of death.
Well, yeah, but homeschoolers are growing in numbers.
Silly Ivory. ALL data are spun to support authorial bias-- often by several opposing authors. Try getting in a mercury/autism debate some time and it will illustrate that point nicely.
Yeah, yeah, and I had a sixth grade teacher who thought communism and socialism were synonymous. Would have been okay except she taught social studies, and threatened to fail Jill XXXX and me for arguing with her and proving her wrong in class. Some people are complete idiots, no matter where on the education scale they lie. That's not limited to teachers, homeschoolers, or any other group, by the way-- it's the human condition.
Homeschoolers are even more planted in pots than kids who go to traditional school. Homeschoolers can only be exposed to what their parents know to expose them to. Kids who go to traditional shcools get exposed to what their parents expose them to AND what the school exposes them to AND what they are exposed to because they are around their peers. Their exposure is less limited.
There is a reason mercury/autism is a debate. Because it's not proven. It's speculation and for every piece of research that thinks it found a link there's one that shows there is no link, which most likely means there's no correlation. I think the argument that we keep our kids too clean leading to autism is probably more likely, though not likely. Most likely, it's just that we are identifying and diagnosing autism better these days. There are plenty of other things that have increased over the same time span like ADD and ADHD.
I agree that education starts at birth. I just think that sending your kids to school with their peers for some of their education is the better method. You have to remember that kids only spend about 25% of their waking time per year in school. That leaves plenty of time to learn from family too. IMO, the more teachers kids are exposed to, the more opportunities they will have to learn. You see, each teacher is limited in their knowledge, (as you are in yours believe it or not I'm sure there are things you have wrong too but until someone corrects you you'll go on thinking you're right).
Watching my kids interact with our dcp and the kids at daycare made me realize just how important other teachers are for our kids. I learned a lot from our dcp. I've learned from my children's teachers. They've learned from me. You see we all have things we think are right but they're wrong. You never figure that out if you exclude other teachers.
Silly Ivory. ALL data are spun to support authorial bias-- often by several opposing authors. Try getting in a mercury/autism debate some time and it will illustrate that point nicely.
Surprisingly, as opinionated as I am in this subject, I refuse to click on those debates. It's not worth my emotion. Homeschooling threads amuse me and some posts annoy me. The debate is fun and finding out just how uneducated those who claim they are not any more special than everyone else. But those that anger me, I avoid like the plague.
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(not me, one of the users managed to wipe the hard drive and I told them to keep it backed up but they didn't so it's gone).
.
The problem with being self taught is you are limted by your teacher's lack of knowledge. It's hard to go looking for information you don't even know is out there. It's really bad now that we have the internet. One skill people seem to be lacking today is how to tell a good site from a bad one. Just because something is on the internet doesn't make it true. In fact, the more they put on the internet, the less reliable it becomes so you have to be very careful what you look at. Which is one reason I kept falling back to ACT scores on the homeschooling thread. We can see actual data for that and know what we're looking at. There are countless numbers of studies that are sliced and diced to say what the author wants them to say out there.
