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Heh Heh.. isn't tha what all the Bionic Properties are.. the APts on Montana near the cielo vista golf course, and the ones on dyer across from where Sasos used to be?
White people? El Paso? LOL...good one. Whenever I was there we used to play the game entitled "find the white guy under 50", given the lack of them on the border . Hard to imagine El Paso being mostly white in the '50s..
I want to live in El Paso, but speak NO Spanish. Would somebody please suggest an upscale, caucasian area (no-not New York)- inthe El Paso Area.
Hi Kentor,
If you're looking for a "caucasian" area simply because you are trying to avoid having to speak Spanish, then you may have the wrong impression of El Paso. The plurality (possibly even the majority) of El Pasoans are bilingual. There are smaller percentages of people who speak only one language, but most of the time language isn't too much of an issue.
On the other hand, if you are looking for a "caucasian" area because you don't want to be exposed to Mexican culture--then El Paso is probably not the right fit for you. Roughly 3 out of 4 people here are of Latin American (mostly Mexican) descent.
We don't really have ethnic "neighborhoods" here like many larger cities do. As pointed out above, some parts of town have more caucasians than Latinos or visa-versa. But mostly, we're all kind of spread around like a good calico soup.
White people? El Paso? LOL...good one. Whenever I was there we used to play the game entitled "find the white guy under 50", given the lack of them on the border . Hard to imagine El Paso being mostly white in the '50s..
Give me a break! El Paso has never been "mostly white".
If you're looking for a "caucasian" area simply because you are trying to avoid having to speak Spanish, then you may have the wrong impression of El Paso. The plurality (possibly even the majority) of El Pasoans are bilingual. There are smaller percentages of people who speak only one language, but most of the time language isn't too much of an issue.
On the other hand, if you are looking for a "caucasian" area because you don't want to be exposed to Mexican culture--then El Paso is probably not the right fit for you. Roughly 3 out of 4 people here are of Latin American (mostly Mexican) descent.
We don't really have ethnic "neighborhoods" here like many larger cities do. As pointed out above, some parts of town have more caucasians than Latinos or visa-versa. But mostly, we're all kind of spread around like a good calico soup.
What sparked your interest in El Paso?
-eplifestyle
Hi eplifestyle -
Well, I am going to if you do not mind chime in a bit here too, even though I know you were addressing your post to the original poster; I see he/she made that original post back in January, so I am not sure if he/she will be around to address his/her perspective.
I know what you are saying here, and honestly, you know from all of my posting that El Paso probably won't find a much bigger cheerleader/fan than myself. So in no way am I disagreeing with what you are saying.
However, even with my great fondness of El Paso, I think my biggest fear about possibly relocating there too is because I am a caucasian/gringo who doesn't speak Spanish, etc. (I know we've discussed this before...but I guess I can relate to where the original poster might be coming from)...
Surely, El Paso is heavily Hispanic / Mexican-influenced...simple geography is just going to dictate that. And frankly, that is one of the aspects of El Paso that I personally love - I greatly love the culture, the laid back pace of life, the food, the general friendliness, etc.
However - I think most people (myself surely included) - ultimately crave "fitting in". What I mean is living everyday life as a noraml member of the functioning society, and not being looked upon or treated like "why in the world are you here?"
I have NO idea if this would be an issue in El Paso, so I am not saying it would be. However, as a gringo (or "Yankee") as the original poster stated, I think that is my biggest fear in relocating to EP like part of me really desires doing.
So the Spanish speaking may have been the original poster's concern (who knows?) and it is still somewhat of a worry of mine...but folks like you have been good at helping to alleviate that concern (in my extensive stays there, too, I have never not been able to get by with speaking English). And maybe he/she may have been wanting to avoid Mexican/Latino culture, and if that is the case, then I also agree with you totally - just not possible (nor should it be) in EP...that is what makes EP EP! However, I think there could be a third aspect...and that is where I have my greatest concern...simply being able to assimilate/blend-in/fit in fairly smoothly and seemlessly.
An example of this - and maybe you could help alleviate this concern! - is that my wife is half Mexican (and looks Mexican) so she gells just fine in EP...and my newborn son looks much like her so he's got no problem. My my 2-year old daughter and I both have nothing but fair (pasty white?) skin, and are as gringos as gringos can be. Sometimes when we've been in EP, if we've gone to McDonalds, etc., we are the only gringos in a busy restaurant. It ALMOST FEELS (and maybe I am way overly sensitive) like folks there are just amazed / surprised staring at us, thinking "what are they doing here?" Now don't get me wrong...no one has ever been rude/mean to us, and again, this may just be me being overly sensitive/having it in my head, but I guess even if I do not physically see 50% gringos in EP with me, I want to take comfort enough in the fact that there are enough gringos there where it isn't a "shock" or a "what are you doing here" reaction for locals. This is especially important for me in regard to my daughter...I certainly want her to be able to fit in and not be an outcast just because she looks different.
I hope this makes sense? Too often now, I think if an Asian person of decent moves into a heavily white area, or if an African American/Hispanic moves into a heavily white area, and they feel a bit uncomfortable or out of their element, we misconstrue that as having "racist" feelings - either on the side of the majority race or the minority race. I don't think that is true often. Alot of times, it is just human nature to wish to socialize/gell/assimilate in communities to people of similar backgrounds, cultures, etc., and race certainly often times is still a factor in this.
Again, I hope this is coming across correctly. You know that I really love El Paso, and I am heavily in the process of legitimately relocating my family from a great town (Albuquerque) to EP because of my love for the culture, food, etc., in addition to logistical reasons such as low cost of housing, no personal income taxes, etc. But I guess to a pasty-white-skinned fellow who grew up in Wisconsin and was used to seeing tons of similarly-backgrounded people in all facets of life, my real fear is moving to EP and not being able to be accepted, assimilate, etc., due to my genetic background.
Is there an approach you might have to give insight to concerns like that? I think perhaps that might have been where the original poster was coming from (although I do not know)...something to the approach of hey, I really like the weather, costs of living, culture, etc., of El Paso, but can a northerner/Yankee fit in and be accepted there.
Anyway, you have always given good, sound advice and insights which I have truly appreciated, and thought you (or other El Paso experts like Harry O or Chuco) might have some thoughts along these lines.
Well, OK, you asked for it. Given the opportunity to wax philosophic, I very often will.
Let me say that I agree that it is very easy to throw around accusations of racism. I will also agree that it very much a part of human nature to seek a familiar environment. For some, that includes being surrounded by people who look the same or have similar experiences.
But being an introspective sort, I have to admit that something bristles in me when I hear that someone wants to live in a "caucasian" neighborhood. I have to remind myself that the intent of the message may be something other than what I perceive it to be (concerns about a language barrier, for example). Why this visceral reaction to something so very possibly benign?
Well, so much of who were are is based on our experiences. Growing up a "bicultural" kid in a "bicultural" city wasn't a big deal for me. Occasionally, I would get asked if I was Mexican or Gringo. Sometimes, I would get a surprised look if I suddenly switched to Spanish during a conversation or if people found out I had a "white" last name. For the most part though, I can say that I didn't experience ethnic issues until I ventured away from the border:
-Grand Prairie, Texas (for a brief time, my family lived in the DFW area): The first time I heard my mother called a "chili-picker" (I was 6).
-Missouri (this experience reminds me of your restaurant example): My sister and I were walking down the street during a family vacation to visit relatives. It was summer, our tans were out in full force, and I remember feeling the weight of the neighbors stares as they watched us from their porches.
-San Antonio (freshman year of college): I was invited to join Mecha (a Mexican campus group) after they "figured out" my heritage. I was the only one to question whether Hispanic students should have their own scholarship/admissions program. My assertion that scholarships should be based on financial need and not on ethnicity didn't go over so well. It was the one an only meeting I attended.
-Middle of Nowhere, Texas: I don't remember the name of the town. I had been driving back to EP from SA to visit family. I had decided to take the "scenic route" (U.S. Highway 90). I stopped in at a tiny diner in this tiny town. Again with the eyes. It sounds like a bad movie, but believe me when say that the Sheriff's deputy didn't take his eyes off me the entire time. He even followed me in the patrol car until I got to the edge of town.
I would also like to point out one other thing. At times in my life I have a had a short (almost military style) haircut. Other times I have let my hair and beard grow. Guess which haircut gets me in more trouble? So it's not just ethnicity. It's perception.
These experiences and others like them have played a part in shaping my attitude toward ethnicity (and perception). And because they have at different times related to different aspects of my heritage, I was perhaps in a unique position to avoid becoming bitter about it (Heck, in retrospect, a story about how I once got pulled over while walking makes for an amusing anecdote).
And that's why I've never considered the ethnic makeup of a neighborhood before moving in. That's why the concept of a homogeneous culture is strange to me (where would I fit in?). It's also why I don't stare at strangers no matter what color they are.
But here is the most important thing: Everyone--no matter how lightskinned/darkskined, wealthy/poor, tall/short, etc. has been there. Everyone's had the experience of not fitting in. It's just that some people are more used to it than others. Anyone who is in the ethnic minority (in El Paso it's Caucasian!) has to get used to it. But it's not a bad thing. It's just..................life.
One more thing:
My father has lived here for more than 50 years. He is in his 80's now. He's dealt with being a minority for most of his life. And let's just say he's not exactly a graduate of PC University. If he can live here and like it, I think you can too. And besides, IMHO, there is no better place to raise a mixed ethnicity family like yours.
You might also be interested in my tongue-in-cheek response to the theory of "Mexicanization" which I'll probably post this weekend.
Cheers, EnjoyEP, and good luck with your decision.
Whenever I was there we used to play the game entitled "find the white guy under 50", given the lack of them on the border
LOL !! Even when i went to high school in the late 70's early 80's we still were out numbered then as only 3 high schools back then had majority Anglo (andress, parkland, coronado) so i guess you could've played ''Find the white guy'' back then also.
Look..... me being anglo (saxon) descent doesn't make me feel bad at all living in El Paso or the border region. Maybe cause my situation is different than alot but i went to a all mexican/american elementary school (mesilla) and junior high school (zia) in Las Cruces so i learned spanish from all my friends there.
Also going to Pasadas and Quinceaneras and going to Juarez with my mexican/american friends and their parents taught me alot about the culture. I still think Latinas are the sexiest women in the world. (ahh el paso nite clubs). Although ''white'' i have dark hair and eyes and tan very easily so maybe that helps for me.
EnjoyEP you can also teach yourself basic spanish by watching Univision television like the novelas (soap operas) i liked Camila, Sonadores and Tres Mujeres, also you can learn by watching the news (noticias) and futbol (soccer) and the commercials. I actually feel very confortable even around african americans as i played sports in school and played with them as teammates and in the navy about 1/3 of the sailors were black on my ship so i fit in well with all. I'm sure if i lived in a Russian community i'd meet them and learn about their ways as well and drink Vodka and toast president Putin.
Now i do love America and joined the Navy and was ready to defend her if called and despised Hugo Chaves as he was putting down George Washington etc.. on C-Span and i'd deck him if i had the chance and believe we do need to shore up our borders and still love my native english language and want newcomers to learn basic english but being around hispanics whether in El Paso, Albuquerque, Miami, Tucson, Phoenix, Chicago, New York, Orlando, Atlanta etc..etc..etc.. doesn't bother me a bit and not going to play ''find the white guy''.
By the way my company has about 18 apartment complexes in albuquerque but who did they send to live and work in the Highly mexican area of town (southeast hieghts) thats right me a ''white'' boy as i'm the only anglo employee but interesting they all think i'm cool especially when i do my Cheech and Chong impersonation ..
One last thing is that i could care less if people hate El Paso infact my family back in the east coast hate the Whole southwest region (el paso, albuquerque,tucson etc.) as they love water/greenery and the ocean but i love the rugged mountains and desert flora and fauna and blue skys and clear nights to see the stars and not cloudy like the southeast usa and having chicken enchiladas with a cold Corona with a lime in the bottle and could care less what my family or others think so if you like it here then great and if you don't great as there is no paradise anywhere (maybe the virgin or caymen islands) Later o Hasta
Go Utep !
Go Andress High School !
Last edited by Six Foot Three; 03-16-2007 at 07:17 PM..
Well, OK, you asked for it. Given the opportunity to wax philosophic, I very often will.
Let me say that I agree that it is very easy to throw around accusations of racism. I will also agree that it very much a part of human nature to seek a familiar environment. For some, that includes being surrounded by people who look the same or have similar experiences.
But being an introspective sort, I have to admit that something bristles in me when I hear that someone wants to live in a "caucasian" neighborhood. I have to remind myself that the intent of the message may be something other than what I perceive it to be (concerns about a language barrier, for example). Why this visceral reaction to something so very possibly benign?
Well, so much of who were are is based on our experiences. Growing up a "bicultural" kid in a "bicultural" city wasn't a big deal for me. Occasionally, I would get asked if I was Mexican or Gringo. Sometimes, I would get a surprised look if I suddenly switched to Spanish during a conversation or if people found out I had a "white" last name. For the most part though, I can say that I didn't experience ethnic issues until I ventured away from the border:
-Grand Prairie, Texas (for a brief time, my family lived in the DFW area): The first time I heard my mother called a "chili-picker" (I was 6).
-Missouri (this experience reminds me of your restaurant example): My sister and I were walking down the street during a family vacation to visit relatives. It was summer, our tans were out in full force, and I remember feeling the weight of the neighbors stares as they watched us from their porches.
-San Antonio (freshman year of college): I was invited to join Mecha (a Mexican campus group) after they "figured out" my heritage. I was the only one to question whether Hispanic students should have their own scholarship/admissions program. My assertion that scholarships should be based on financial need and not on ethnicity didn't go over so well. It was the one an only meeting I attended.
-Middle of Nowhere, Texas: I don't remember the name of the town. I had been driving back to EP from SA to visit family. I had decided to take the "scenic route" (U.S. Highway 90). I stopped in at a tiny diner in this tiny town. Again with the eyes. It sounds like a bad movie, but believe me when say that the Sheriff's deputy didn't take his eyes off me the entire time. He even followed me in the patrol car until I got to the edge of town.
I would also like to point out one other thing. At times in my life I have a had a short (almost military style) haircut. Other times I have let my hair and beard grow. Guess which haircut gets me in more trouble? So it's not just ethnicity. It's perception.
These experiences and others like them have played a part in shaping my attitude toward ethnicity (and perception). And because they have at different times related to different aspects of my heritage, I was perhaps in a unique position to avoid becoming bitter about it (Heck, in retrospect, a story about how I once got pulled over while walking makes for an amusing anecdote).
And that's why I've never considered the ethnic makeup of a neighborhood before moving in. That's why the concept of a homogeneous culture is strange to me (where would I fit in?). It's also why I don't stare at strangers no matter what color they are.
But here is the most important thing: Everyone--no matter how lightskinned/darkskined, wealthy/poor, tall/short, etc. has been there. Everyone's had the experience of not fitting in. It's just that some people are more used to it than others. Anyone who is in the ethnic minority (in El Paso it's Caucasian!) has to get used to it. But it's not a bad thing. It's just..................life.
One more thing:
My father has lived here for more than 50 years. He is in his 80's now. He's dealt with being a minority for most of his life. And let's just say he's not exactly a graduate of PC University. If he can live here and like it, I think you can too. And besides, IMHO, there is no better place to raise a mixed ethnicity family like yours.
You might also be interested in my tongue-in-cheek response to the theory of "Mexicanization" which I'll probably post this weekend.
Cheers, EnjoyEP, and good luck with your decision.
-eplifestyle
This is a great post / great insight eplifestyle...thanks so much for taking the time to post such great, well-thought-out thoughts.
Folks like you have bolstered my confidence in living in El Paso.
My wife and I have decided that IF (and I realize this is a huge if) I am offered a suitable job in my profession in the greater El Paso area, I am going to "go for it" and we are going to relocate to El Paso. Thus, if (and again, a huge if I realize) a job oppty presents itself in EP, we are going to try it out and see what happens.
I spoke to a fellow with three children - a gringo with no Spanish speaking ability - who has lived in EP for 14 years and loves it as well. He said he's never had a major problem with the language issue, and as you said, noted that the people are very accepting and friendly, despite the "minority race" status. It was very refreshing to hear...just as I have experienced and you alluded to as well.
Anyway, thanks again...your post was very much appreciated!
P.S. I am still actually very interested in reading your Ytongue-in-cheek response to the theory of "Mexicanization"...would love to hear it!
I am an Anglo-Saxon, 100% gringa. My husband's job sent us on a temporary assignment to Juarez, Mexico. We decided to live in Mexico so our children could be immersed in the Spanish language. In 6 months, our children are now bilingual. We want to continue to expose our children to the Mexican-American culture. So, we have decided to stay and will move across the border to El Paso.
I love the influence of the Mexican culture in El Paso. I try to keep an open mind and live life as an adventure. And my message to the Yankee coming from a Southern Belle, you will be a minority no matter what El Paso neighborhood you live in.
I am an Anglo-Saxon, 100% gringa. My husband's job sent us on a temporary assignment to Juarez, Mexico. We decided to live in Mexico so our children could be immersed in the Spanish language. In 6 months, our children are now bilingual. We want to continue to expose our children to the Mexican-American culture. So, we have decided to stay and will move across the border to El Paso.
I love the influence of the Mexican culture in El Paso. I try to keep an open mind and live life as an adventure. And my message to the Yankee coming from a Southern Belle, you will be a minority no matter what El Paso neighborhood you live in.
Bien Suerte!!
Wow, that is an amazing and neat antecdote, alivaz! That is really indeed an adventure...being gringa and living in Juarez! I don't think I could be that bold. That is great though, children becoming bilingual in 6-months...I would like my two kids to become bilingual as well.
I really like your attitude and folks like you hearten my feelings about El Paso as well! Thanks for the post! Would love to hear more of your experiences / adventures as they come if you would have the time to continue posting.
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white people in el paso
. Hard to imagine El Paso being mostly white in the '50s..
Given the opportunity to wax philosophic, I very often will.
