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That is the problem here, there are two cities competing for the jobs in El Paso with a strong preference given to native speakers of Spanish. You can see by the very long lines of traffic coming over the bridges every morning and the high number of Chihuahua plates on cars that it's a very big problem. Not to mention that they bring their children to use the schools here at no cost to them, they contribute nothing to property taxes which makes the property taxes enormous here to those who must pay. They use the county hospital without contributing to it. They can drive on our streets without liability insurance which drives up our insurance rates.
I also believe that because of the ability to work for big money (to them) here but pay nothing to support schools and taxes and police forces in their own city, nor ours, that is a big reason for their big crime problem now. These people invest in neither city, they have no incentive to build schools or hospitals since they can use ours at no cost. They prefer their system of very low pay for their own police and the mordida system and if it gets bad enough they can just pack up and go to El Paso but that's as a last resort because then they are stuck paying taxes.
Then I see that my opinion of El Paso has not changed since I left..that's too bad because El Paso has potential and can offer more than it being a designation spot for retirees.
No hard feelings Malamute..we have different views and different ways of expressing them but sometimes it all ends up the same..go figure..
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
That is the problem here, there are two cities competing for the jobs in El Paso with a strong preference given to native speakers of Spanish. You can see by the very long lines of traffic coming over the bridges every morning and the high number of Chihuahua plates on cars that it's a very big problem. Not to mention that they bring their children to use the schools here at no cost to them, they contribute nothing to property taxes which makes the property taxes enormous here to those who must pay. They use the county hospital without contributing to it. They can drive on our streets without liability insurance which drives up our insurance rates.
I also believe that because of the ability to work for big money (to them) here but pay nothing to support schools and taxes and police forces in their own city, nor ours, that is a big reason for their big crime problem now. These people invest in neither city, they have no incentive to build schools or hospitals since they can use ours at no cost. They prefer their system of very low pay for their own police and the mordida system and if it gets bad enough they can just pack up and go to El Paso but that's as a last resort because then they are stuck paying taxes.
Then I see that my opinion of El Paso has not changed since I left..that's too bad because El Paso has potential and can offer more than it being a designation spot for retirees.
No hard feelings Malamute..we have different views and different ways of expressing them but sometimes it all ends up the same..go figure..
No - I never have hard feelings - but living here isn't all that bad (in my opinion) and plenty of people here are as ambitious as you find anywhere. I just don't like big crowded cities but others do. My feeling about the big cities is that I would prefer to live in the worst neighborhood of El Paso than the worst neighborhood of any big city - AND I would prefer to live in the best neighborhood of El Paso than the best neighborhood of a very big city -- ESPECIALLY if the weather isn't like the weather here.
I really like how if you have to go downtown here, it's not a lot of traffic and parking isn't all that tough to find. El Paso is very convenient. It's also very safe as long as you aren't in some cartel or gang and your family members like you or you don't have any.
But I also don't wear rose-colored glasses, I know there are problems here, I know a lot of people leave and never return but since the city is already too big (for my tastes), that's okay with me. It's maybe not the best place to raise kids but it's also not the worst. I think in some ways what makes it better is there is less social pressure on kids, fads tend to hit here later, people aren't as weird here as in some places.
Most of all the weather here is wonderful. The mountain, army base, and airport split the town up so it's not just a big massive city, everyone can see empty space still. The taxes are terrible, there seems to be a lot of potential for terrible crime unless our leaders wake up soon.
That's funny..your comment about living in the worst El Paso neighborhood instead of a big city worst..I would have to agree with that one and take El Paso! I would take the best one in a big city. Going downtown is not as bad because of mass transit but you do not have a car so you either keep riding the train if club hopping or take cabs. Taking your car is an adventure but bearable. Most people in El Paso are very friendly compared to big cities. Believe it or not, I also enjoy the small town feel but I want to be able to live it up in the city at my convenience. I want to be able to take the kids to big fancy museums and zoo and well you get it. If El Paso had that, I would go back because of the weather and the mountains..two things I miss. El Paso has changed from my last visit but I do have to agree with you that it is getting too crowded. Most big cities are crowded but you always have suburbs to escape to which usually have those big open spaces you love. We have forest preserves with great bike paths, lakes and wide open spaces but El Paso could certainly do their own version using native plants and such. This type of expansion needs careful planning and vision..something I fear your local leaders lack. In its present course, El Paso will become as congested as a big city without the retreats of suburbs. Wages are an entirely different topic and unfortunately, I do not see your leaders capable of handling that. It's a shame because I do like El Paso..I just wish it had more to offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
No - I never have hard feelings - but living here isn't all that bad (in my opinion) and plenty of people here are as ambitious as you find anywhere. I just don't like big crowded cities but others do. My feeling about the big cities is that I would prefer to live in the worst neighborhood of El Paso than the worst neighborhood of any big city - AND I would prefer to live in the best neighborhood of El Paso than the best neighborhood of a very big city -- ESPECIALLY if the weather isn't like the weather here.
I really like how if you have to go downtown here, it's not a lot of traffic and parking isn't all that tough to find. El Paso is very convenient. It's also very safe as long as you aren't in some cartel or gang and your family members like you or you don't have any.
But I also don't wear rose-colored glasses, I know there are problems here, I know a lot of people leave and never return but since the city is already too big (for my tastes), that's okay with me. It's maybe not the best place to raise kids but it's also not the worst. I think in some ways what makes it better is there is less social pressure on kids, fads tend to hit here later, people aren't as weird here as in some places.
Most of all the weather here is wonderful. The mountain, army base, and airport split the town up so it's not just a big massive city, everyone can see empty space still. The taxes are terrible, there seems to be a lot of potential for terrible crime unless our leaders wake up soon.
I easily make double that plus some...maybe one of the reasons I have not gone back to ELP
You said you're a teacher - teachers here easily make double that plus some, teachers in El Paso start at almost $40,000 a year, work 9 months with every weekend and holiday off. They can make a lot more if they work summers or are Spanish speaking.
RNs here make $60,000 a year or more, pharmacists start at about $80,000. School principals, physicians, lawyers can make as much or more than they can make anywhere.
Almost anywhere smaller towns have lower wages than huge cities, but lower costs in some things, less hassles like traffic.
You can really compare huge city with huge city - Chicago to New York or to Dallas or Los Angeles. Moderate size cities should be compared with other moderate size cities like El Paso to Albuquerque. When comparing with cold weather cities, you have to take into account the costs of home heating in the winter and snow plowing services, likewise with humid hot weather places that have much higher air cooling costs.
Taxes are the one thing that really sets us back, they are way out of line for the wages.
You can really compare huge city with huge city - Chicago to New York or to Dallas or Los Angeles. Moderate size cities should be compared with other moderate size cities like El Paso to Albuquerque.
I could not agree more. While our long term goals should be to become a Chicago or New York, I have no idea why so many people complain about El Paso in relation to major cities. How many times have we heard about El Paso lacking in an area compared to Austin, or Seattle, or San Diego. It is good to bring these points up and try to fix the situation but we are not going to get a new city government and become San Antonio in one year. It is a slow - but steady - process.
Mistabinks, just wondering...you wanted me to elaborate on my position and problem with Juarez and El Paso...I did but I have not heard your response. Is my assertion of El Paso that twisted or am I correct? I am interested in your view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistabinks
I could not agree more. While our long term goals should be to become a Chicago or New York, I have no idea why so many people complain about El Paso in relation to major cities. How many times have we heard about El Paso lacking in an area compared to Austin, or Seattle, or San Diego. It is good to bring these points up and try to fix the situation but we are not going to get a new city government and become San Antonio in one year. It is a slow - but steady - process.
Mistabinks, just wondering...you wanted me to elaborate on my position and problem with Juarez and El Paso...I did but I have not heard your response. Is my assertion of El Paso that twisted or am I correct? I am interested in your view.
Lets see if I can translate my opinions to texts.
Workers from Juarez is always going to be a problem - for certain jobs. That is just a way of life for a bordertown. Now, I have a career and a small business, and workers from Juarez are not a factor in either field. I am not interested in the jobs Juarez workers are taking from El Pasoans. Let me be clear, just because it does not affect me does not mean I don't care or think it is right. This thread is about call centers and how they pay less in El Paso than other cities. I have never worked in a call center so I don't know if they hire people from Juarez. At best, to me, this type of job would only be something I would be interested in while in college.
I am interested in what skilled blue labor jobs you were referring to that Juarez workers are taking from El Pasoans. Carpentry? I just don't see what management jobs people from Juarez are taking from El Pasoans.
I'll get a little off topic here but it is impossible to please everyone. A new call center is relocating to El Paso and everyone instantly assumes they will be paying third world wages. Which is obviously not true. It will probably be lower than non-bordertown cities but it wont be third world wages or even minimum wage. People chastise other people for being on welfare. Yet those same people will chastise others for taking jobs like this. You can do no right.
Another example. In one thread, people will say El Paso is too laid back and nobody wants to move away after college. In another thread, people will compain about El Paso and the fact that everyone moves away after college. You can do no right.
We are a bordertown. Legal and illegal workers are going to come to El Paso looking for work. America is the greatest nation in the world. I would cross a border to get to America. Nothing would stop me from doing that. That is a reality. So I stepped up, got a career, and started a small business. Juarez is a reality. Call centers that pay a few bucks less than other cities is a reality. You can throw your hands up and give up or you can use those resources to better yourself. You have no one to blame but yourself if you take a job at a call center, and never attempt to better yourself, and do nothing but complain that you would be making more in San Antonio.
I'm just saying, don't wait for the government, or El Paso, to change anything. Step up and change your own life. If that roads takes you to Chicago, or UTEP, or NMSU, so be it.
Very interesting..while I agree that personal responsibility is seriously lacking, I do not agree with your assertion that that is how border town life goes. Illegals are illegals and shule be treated as such. They are breaking the law and should face stiff penalties and deportation for their crime as well as the companies that employ them. To stay on topic, I agree that working at one of these call centers should be a stepping stone and not a career. Skilled blue collar jobs can include a variety of fields such as, mechanics, carpenters, welders, electricians, plumbers and so on..these type of workers make as much in bigger cities as professionals in El Paso with bachelors, masters and some doctorates. White collar workers make considerably more. The one thing that both have in common is how illegals bring wages down. Bigger cities are not affected as much but it still is a problem for those that are non skiled. My point is that there was a time when blue collar workers made enough to take care of their families..in some cities it is still possible..even some border cities. Illegals are a huge drain on our economy and should be dealt with. I am in a position to do someting about it and I work everyday to make sure enforcement increases. Borders need to be closed and allow U.S. Citizens to flourish. There will be some that will always work at call centers or low skilled or no skill jobs..that is also a reality but there is no reason why we should ever accept illegals crossing over and taking jobs from Americans..ever..any job! I love politics and one day I will go back to El Paso and run for office and make sure the border is closed down. I am a minority so don't think that I am being racist..perhaps an Uncle Tom but the truth is that I see on a daily basis the damage that illegals of all nations cause and how they are bankrupting our country. El Pasoans have accepted it as the status quo, but they shouldn't. Fix our illegal problem first and then the rest of our citizens can get ahead. Let third world countries have the call center jobs as long as we secure our border and start producing again with high paying, skilled jobs that will allow Americans to get ahead in life. I sense we are not on the same page on this but we should be. I work everyday in Chicago to make it happen..one day it will happen in El Paso..when the people stand up and say enough!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistabinks
Lets see if I can translate my opinions to texts.
Workers from Juarez is always going to be a problem - for certain jobs. That is just a way of life for a bordertown. Now, I have a career and a small business, and workers from Juarez are not a factor in either field. I am not interested in the jobs Juarez workers are taking from El Pasoans. Let me be clear, just because it does not affect me does not mean I don't care or think it is right. This thread is about call centers and how they pay less in El Paso than other cities. I have never worked in a call center so I don't know if they hire people from Juarez. At best, to me, this type of job would only be something I would be interested in while in college.
I am interested in what skilled blue labor jobs you were referring to that Juarez workers are taking from El Pasoans. Carpentry? I just don't see what management jobs people from Juarez are taking from El Pasoans.
I'll get a little off topic here but it is impossible to please everyone. A new call center is relocating to El Paso and everyone instantly assumes they will be paying third world wages. Which is obviously not true. It will probably be lower than non-bordertown cities but it wont be third world wages or even minimum wage. People chastise other people for being on welfare. Yet those same people will chastise others for taking jobs like this. You can do no right.
Another example. In one thread, people will say El Paso is too laid back and nobody wants to move away after college. In another thread, people will compain about El Paso and the fact that everyone moves away after college. You can do no right.
We are a bordertown. Legal and illegal workers are going to come to El Paso looking for work. America is the greatest nation in the world. I would cross a border to get to America. Nothing would stop me from doing that. That is a reality. So I stepped up, got a career, and started a small business. Juarez is a reality. Call centers that pay a few bucks less than other cities is a reality. You can throw your hands up and give up or you can use those resources to better yourself. You have no one to blame but yourself if you take a job at a call center, and never attempt to better yourself, and do nothing but complain that you would be making more in San Antonio.
I'm just saying, don't wait for the government, or El Paso, to change anything. Step up and change your own life. If that roads takes you to Chicago, or UTEP, or NMSU, so be it.
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