Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wrong answer. What happens with Social Security and Medicare that my hard earned money paid for? Not " on your own", I, and countless millions paid for it. What happens to it under this plan?
Almost every African-American alive today (about 98%) has white ancestry even though their skin may be very dark. Its hard to find a 100% black person.
give a real world example of trickle up poverty working
bet you cant
So you're admitting you can't give me an example, yeah?
I can give you several examples, from my own career, where the company increases profits and hands out zero more money to the employees in the form of bonuses or raises. Nor did they hire more employees.
The company you work for is doing good and you either get a bonus or a raise. See how easy that was?
Sure that could happen. It is just as likely, if not more so, that it does not happen, however. Especially if we're talking about a publicly traded company that is worrying about it's quarterly earnings and share prices.
I would like to see real world examples of it actually happening, across an industry, let alone across an entire economy, however.
It absolutely has not worked that way in the past. At least not here in the US.
the Center for American Progress is full of Marxist, liberal progressives, why they want to keep the current corrupt system is beyond me.
People need to realize that the current tax code is the real "garbage" here. Our current system is a tool for corrupt politicians to buy votes, and a tool for the rich to buy tax exclusions and loopholes for themselves, by bribing corrupt politicians.
CAP's analysis is flawed, because it pretends the economy exists in a vacuum, as if all other economic factors will remain the same. Simplifying the tax code, all by itself, would wipe out tens of billions in costs we all pay for tax consulting, tax preparation and greatly reduce the size of our tax collectors in the current $13 billion dollar IRS department.
The 9% sales tax only applies when purchasing new products. The rich will be paying taxes on that new car, and the rest of us will pay zero taxes on that same car when we buy it used. Food will not be taxed, and I doubt many other essentials will see the 9% tax either.
THIS ^ is precisely why we are in the crap shape we're in, and why there is little hope so long as so many remain this deceived and unable to employ an ounce of common sense.
First of all, you aren't paying a federal sales tax on new or used cars now. Secondly, rich people don't by cars .... they drive nice new cars which are registered to their businesses where they write off the expenses, and pay NOTHING for the privilege ... not the tax and not even the cost of the car. It's the working people who buy new cars and trucks ... most often, they have to finance them for 5 or 6 years, and that 9% additional federal tax will equate to an additional $2,225 for the basic $25,000 dollar ford or chevy ... financed for 60 months, will ultimately will end up costing them $3,500 ..... which effectively means 14% additional !!
Look around you for Christ sake .... is everyone driving a 9 year old Corolla? Jesus And is that what you think would be good for the economy? That everyone except rich people will stop buying new cars and drive old ones?
The rich will save a buck whenever they can... just like normal, everyday citizens. Some of my high-income friends who make over $300,000/year are some of the most frugal people I know!
give a real world example of trickle up poverty working
bet you cant
It's working just fine as we speak. The rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
You could say that the middle class is just slipping down into poverty if you like ... or you could admit that poverty is trickling up, cuz it's the same difference!
No, the monies collected go into the general fund. Those amounts are "accounted for" in the accounting system under the label of Social Security Tax collected. That figure is then used in calculating the amounts collected versus the amounts dispersed in payments .... the unspent balance of which is then issued non-trading (read: can't be sold to investors, and can only be redeemed at maturity from the Treasury Department) special issue bonds, which are in effect, nothing more than IOUs from the Treasury Department.
And who do you think will have to "pay" for the value of those bonds at maturity when they are redeemed? You, the tax payer. So, the money in the general fund (which is running at 1+ Trillion in the negative, annually) doesn't cover the current obligations, which is why we have a 14+ Trillion national debt ... and when those bonds are redeemed, that money will have to be borrowed too, since there is no projection for a budget surplus anytime in the foreseeable future, given current and projected spending over the next dozen or more years.
The reality is, the United States Treasury is bankrupt (more going out than is coming in), and must continue to borrow to meet current obligations. And there is no projection for that situation to reverse itself in the near future.
So call it what you will ... t-bonds or IOUs ... the bottom line is, any surplus in SS funds collected are being spent for other obligations, and issued a promissory to pay it back in the future. And because these promises to pay are coming from the Treasury ... and because all of the money treasury has comes either from creating and selling new bonds (which the tax payers must eventually pay for in the future), or collected from Tax Payers now in the form of higher taxes ... it's the tax payer on the hook for all of it.
There are only three ways to pay for these IOUs .... raise SS or other taxes (which the tax payer pays), borrow more money (which the tax payer must pay in the future) ... or cut Social Security benefits (the Tax payer who thought his money was being put into a trust find ends up suffering the loss because that money was long ago spent).
This isn't real difficult stuff to understand.
If you are over drafted on your checking account, but continue writing checks ..you're committing fraud. You may be able to convince people to accept your worthless checks, and so long as they do, everything is fine for you ... but not too good for the unsuspecting folks that trusted you enough to accept your bad checks. But eventually, those checks will be cashed, and they will bounce, and you'll go to jail for writing bad checks. It's called financial fraud.
The way Social Security is operating is the same way the entire system is structured .... a ponzi scheme. Look up ponzi scheme ... that's what's happening. If your last name is Gambini, or Capone ... they call you a mafia crook when you do this crap .... but when your last name is Greenspan, or Volker, or Bernake ... you're called the Federal Reserve, and you can write as many bad checks as you want.
Dude I liked the Social Security Trust fund website to you. You are just wrong. Just because you desperately want to believe something doesn't make it true. As to when bonds reach maturity they are paid out in full. If you bothered to read the link I posted you would see that the SS trust fund sold about 926 billion dollars worth of bonds in the last few years. Furthermore SS for years has and still is taking in more money they it pays out. That is why it buys bonds in the first place, because T bonds are widely recognized to be the safest investment in the world. The money does just go to the general fund. As to the debt problem that is more with the general fund then with SS. We will have to raise taxes because of dumb sh*t unrelated to Social Security like the Iraq war and the Bush tax cuts. Social Security it not the reason the general fund has been running deficits. Now there are some questions as to whether SS will have sovency problems in 2040, but that has more to do with declining population growth rather then the stability of T bonds.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 10-13-2011 at 09:51 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
