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But the baseline starting point for your side is that the government should continue to spend 25% (or more) of GDP, a huge and dramatic increase from the Clinton era average of about 19%. How do we peel back to Clinton-era levels without cuts? W and Obama both increased the size of government beyond its historic proportions, there are really bipartisan causes for the current situation. Likewise, if we had the option of going back to Clinton-era tax rates AND Clinton-era spending levels, you might be surprised at how many Republicans would sign up for that.
But when you say that anyone who disagrees with your starting baseline is not working with the rest of America, it is kind of bogus.
President Obama has run the opposite direction from every recent bipartisan attempt to work on all three of our long-term challenges, most recently his own Simpson Bowles Commission--but including the Rivlin Domenici Commission before that, and the Gang of Six framework. The 'throw granny off a cliff' garbage is the Dem's response to the clear, harsh arithmetic of our entitlement challenges. The show-pony style tax proposals of the President are laughably at odds with Simpson Bowles. And the devotion to the wasting of money for the benefit of public sector employees flies in the face of the fact that we have run out of money to waste.
It is precisely because President Obama has forgotten how to work with the rest of America that he is in peril of losing his job.
What part of America? His spending is less than Reagan's! OBAMA has a "D" behind his name hence the hostility!
Congratulations, Fiddlehead. You just put your finger on how this whole mess HAS to come out.
1. The decades-long average tax take is around 19%, and it probably does need to be a little higher now because of demographics. You are on target, elements of the right are abdicating leadership on that.
2. Knock Ryan all you want, but we need the dialogue that he is trying to provoke: face the arithmetic on entitlements, and make the adjustments that raw arithmetic requires. I am NOT saying the Ryan approach is the right solution, but shame on those who just heap crap on him without engaging in the issue. Elements on the left are not realistic about entitlements.
3. Simpson Bowles all the way--you and I agree. This means that the plethora of proposals (and established provisions) for special breaks for friends and special extra tax provisions for enemies ALL need to go in the trash can. Take the garbage out of the tax code, cut marginal rates, and collect more actual dollars. This has been the president's most glaring deficiency, and if he doesn't get with the program somebody else will.
We sorely need the common-sense middle to appear and exert some leadership and statesmanship. Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson showed the way; the president stumbled far from the path and nobody on either side has drug him back to it.
Good post, and I agree the the question of fiscal solvency for our government demands that we find common sense and common ground. Perhaps it is a niche for the few remaining moderates. We cannot maintain historically low tax rates as we support historically high levels of retirees. And axing the poor and government employees to fill that gap will be far more disruptive than a 2-3% tax hike for those of us luck enough to be employed with money to spend, especially those of us in the top quartile of income (not sure if I am there, but close).
I am not exactly sure why Obama ignored Simpson Bowles. He needs to be called out on that, because he claimed to be trying to build bipartisan consensus, and that would be the most bipartisan thing to rally around right now.
I guess the jury is out. The GOP might just get the White House with the sleazy trash talk, aided by the terrible economy (that no one can fully predict or be sure of fixing-all bets are off), but I still think stepping up with real leadership instead of purely partisan proposals is a better way to go.
The Dems go booted because the repubs spent a lot of money advertising and the American general knee jerkers all wanted some revenge for what had been done to us. Most people vote off emotion not the facts and the repubs are very good a changing the facts. See below:
Among the GOP base, there is constant harping about somebody else, some "other," who is deliberately, assiduously and with malice aforethought subverting the Good, the True and the Beautiful: Subversives. Commies. Socialists. Ragheads. Secular humanists. Blacks. ****. Feminazis. The list may change with the political needs of the moment, but they always seem to need a scapegoat to hate and fear.
There was actually a study done on this. Conservatives have a different brain structure that causes them to be more sensitive to perceived threats and challenges to traditional ideas, while liberals have a brain structure that makes them more open minded to new ideas and unfamiliar cultures. The problem for social conservatives is that society has generally evolved by continuously moving to the left, so they constantly perceive change as a threat. Even the word liberal (derived from the Latin word libre, or free) has been hijacked by conservatives, demonized by pundits as a person who is weak and lacking values. Liberalism was traditionally associated with equality, human rights, constitutionalism, and capitalism. In the Middle Ages, liberals were those who opposed oppressive feudal regimes and espoused a merit-based, free society based on capitalism. Traditional conservatives were those who supported a hierarchal society rooted in religion and monarchy.
And while traditional conservativism has evolved as society has moved to the left throughout the centuries, it's self evident that social order and religion are still pillars of modern day conservatism. The recent vitriol from the right about gay marriage and immigration is a response to evolving American demographics, and IMHO, a losing battle.
Last edited by mustang84; 06-13-2012 at 11:29 PM..
There was actually a study done on this. Conservatives have a different brain structure that causes them to be more sensitive to perceived threats and challenges to traditional ideas, while liberals have a brain structure that makes them more open minded to new ideas and unfamiliar cultures. The problem for social conservatives is that society has generally evolved by continuously moving to the left, so they constantly perceive change as a threat. Even the word liberal (derived from the Latin word libre, or free) has been hijacked by conservatives, demonized by pundits as a person who is weak and lacking values. Liberalism was traditionally associated with equality, human rights, constitutionalism, and capitalism. In the Middle Ages, liberals were those who opposed oppressive feudal regimes and espoused a merit-based, free society based on capitalism. Traditional conservatives were those who supported a hierarchal society rooted in religion and monarchy.
And while traditional conservativism has evolved as society has moved to the left throughout the centuries, it's self evident that social order and religion are still pillars of modern day conservatism. The recent vitriol from the right about gay marriage and immigration is a response to evolving American demographics, and IMHO, a losing battle.
and who did this brillant study? Oh I know who did it? I don't know the name of the group but it was a bunch of people, Obama hired off the street a few months ago, so he could show us how he was personally bringing down the unemployment rate.
Dems have been making excuses for the ghetto goon they elected since the day he took office, why would anything change now?
Oooo - "ghetto" - there's the codeword again. Conservatives all over the media and on this forum say they are "not racist" then they throw out this codeword to the delight of their brethren.
You righties are not as slick as you think you are. Civilized people are on to you.
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