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If you have been on the politics and other controversies forum and election forum long enough you would know that conservatives complain until they are blue in the face that they will not vote for a "RINO" moderate or semi-conservative Republican candidate in the presidential election. My question is if we put a conservative candidate out there and they lose, handedly, will conservatives not complain that the only reason the republicans last was because of a moderate candidate?
Under your very narrow proposal, if a true conservative candidate wins the nomination but loses the general "handedly", then no one should complain. If the country wants to fall further into the gutter with the likes of any of the dim candidates against a true conservative, that's what it is. But who the left calls a conservative and who conservatives call a conservative are so far apart as to be meaningless. I mean, the leftists think barry of the large ears is a conservative!
who among those currently running do you consider a "true conservative"?
I know you are not asking me but Cruz and Carson out of the nominees are the closest to being "true conservatives." Rubio is outside of immigration reform which he is wishy-washy on. Paul is but he's also libertarian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed from California
Under your very narrow proposal, if a true conservative candidate wins the nomination but loses the general "handedly", then no one should complain. If the country wants to fall further into the gutter with the likes of any of the dim candidates against a true conservative, that's what it is. But who the left calls a conservative and who conservatives call a conservative are so far apart as to be meaningless. I mean, the leftists think barry of the large ears is a conservative!
You should know by now that the left labels a republican as a conservative and want to push granny off the cliff, while the right labels a democrat as a liberal and a rubber stamp for X. This is a simple concept that is tried and fairly true. It is the same rhetoric that conservatives use with calling moderates progressives and socialists
I won't vote for a conservative because the garden variety are against equal rights and want to make cuts with a machete. See the McGovern defense plan from the 1972 election, imagine that to everything BUT the military. That is what your "true conservatives" want. They want to decrease the debt by cuts and decreasing taxes, anyone can tell you that is a zero sum game.
We Republicans are always told that we need to go with a moderate in order to have a chance to win. How did that work out with Dole and McCain? We lost. W Bush was a moderate (actually a little left of center, IMO) who at least did win, albeit barely, and partly because he faced weak campaigners both times. And I don't think most conservatives are on balance happy with the outcome of the W Bush era. We got a spending binge and a new entitlement. We saw rollbacks of personal liberties from the Patriot Act to McCain-Feingold.
I think Americans will vote for a conservative if he/she is perceived as competent, and has leadership qualities, and communication skills. They did w/ Reagan. Granted that was a long time ago now--over 30 years since his 1984 re-election.
We have a guy this time around who is a true conservative, competent, a leader, and a good communicator. That would be Ted Cruz. I'm willing to roll the dice this season and try a true conservative.
What if we run a true conservative and get trounced in the general by Hillary? Having read a lot about Hillary over the past year, I don't think it will be the end of the world. Even though she's busily campaigning hard left right now, she is at this stage of her life non-ideological. She doesn't believe all the crap she is spouting right now. If she did, she would have not sought that $400,000 payday from Goldman Sachs. Hillary Clinton's Goldman Sachs Problem | Mother Jones
We Republicans are always told that we need to go with a moderate in order to have a chance to win. How did that work out with Dole and McCain? We lost. W Bush was a moderate (actually a little left of center, IMO) who at least did win, albeit barely, and partly because he faced weak campaigners both times. And I don't think most conservatives are on balance happy with the outcome of the W Bush era. We got a spending binge and a new entitlement. We saw rollbacks of personal liberties from the Patriot Act to McCain-Feingold.
I think Americans will vote for a conservative if he/she is perceived as competent, and has leadership qualities, and communication skills. They did w/ Reagan. Granted that was a long time ago now--over 30 years since his 1984 re-election.
We have a guy this time around who is a true conservative, competent, a leader, and a good communicator. That would be Ted Cruz. I'm willing to roll the dice this season and try a true conservative.
What if we run a true conservative and get trounced in the general by Hillary? Having read a lot about Hillary over the past year, I don't think it will be the end of the world. Even though she's busily campaigning hard left right now, she is at this stage of her life non-ideological. She doesn't believe all the crap she is spouting right now. If she did, she would have not sought that $400,000 payday from Goldman Sachs. Hillary Clinton's Goldman Sachs Problem | Mother Jones
I can't see George W. Bush as anything close to a left of center moderate, but your description illustrates just how far the bases of both parties have diverged. My right winger is your left of center moderate.
I agree with your thoughts on Hillary. If elected, she'll be a corporate friendly centrist Democrat.
The election will come down to how 6 or 7 states fall. For the GOP, it's a question of which potential nominee is most likely to hold North Carolina, and win Florida, Ohio, Virginia and any other state to reach 270 electoral votes. I've thought for some time that the most competitive Republican ticket would include 1 of the Florida twins plus either Scott Walker or John Kasich, because it would give the best chance of taking Florida and Ohio, and without both states, the GOP probably isn't in position for a win. It will be interesting to follow.
Last edited by Bureaucat; 06-21-2015 at 02:55 PM..
I won't vote for a conservative because the garden variety are against equal rights and want to make cuts with a machete. See the McGovern defense plan from the 1972 election, imagine that to everything BUT the military. That is what your "true conservatives" want. They want to decrease the debt by cuts and decreasing taxes, anyone can tell you that is a zero sum game.
if is not in the constitution is not a right.....liberals want to make everything into a right and make things up for political votes by making victims out of one or more groups.
when we have 18 trillion dollars in debt we have to make government cuts sooner or later...the math doesn't add up.
the Liberal formula of raising taxes and raising government spending (8 trillion under Obama and growing) and playing the class warfare card doesn't add up.
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[quote=Ed from California;40105249]Under your very narrow proposal, if a true conservative candidate wins the nomination but loses the general "handedly", then no one should complain. If the country wants to fall further into the gutter with the likes of any of the dim candidates against a true conservative, that's what it is. But who the left calls a conservative and who conservatives call a conservative are so far apart as to be meaningless. I mean, the leftists think barry of the large ears is a conservative! [/QUOTE
And the rightists think Reagan, who grew government and spent like a drunken sailor during his tenure, was a conservative.
I can't see George W. Bush as anything close to a left of center moderate, but your description illustrates just how far the bases of both parties have diverged. My right winger is your left of center moderate.
I agree with your thoughts on Hillary. If elected, she'll be a corporate friendly centrist Democrat.
The election will come down to how 6 or 7 states fall. For the GOP, it's a question of which potential nominee is most likely to hold North Carolina, and win Florida, Ohio, Virginia and any other state to reach 270 electoral votes. I've thought for some time that the most competitive Republican ticket would include 1 of the Florida twins plus either Scott Walker or John Kasich, because it would give the best chance of taking Florida and Ohio, and without both states, the GOP probably isn't in position for a win. It will be interesting to follow.
What stands out is very few think about the path to 270.
And the rightists think Reagan, who grew government and spent like a drunken sailor during his tenure, was a conservative.
funny you called in sick the day your school taught American Civics.
Reagan had to deal with a very liberal Democrat congress as President and governor of California,.....he had to compromise on the budget to get his defense spending to win the cold war and his tax cuts to get the economy moving again and bring down inflation that was 12% under Carter.
Democrats in congress in the 80's were so liberal and for big government that when Bubba Clinton was in office even he admitted the era of big government was over and cut down spending.
Liberals do have a short memory and love to re-write history.....lol
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