Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm for having a general election with all candidates lumped together on one ballot. Unless one gets 50% or more of the popular vote, have a run off between the top two. The electoral vote is silly- it can negate the will of the majority.
I agree with that.
It would ensure that the voters controlled the outcome, not the parties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Trump is damaging the Republican brand. He's inconsistent in his positions, he's incendiary in his rhetoric, and he's alienating to portions of the population that the GOP needs in order to win.
They said the same things about Reagan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
Reagan was down something like 30% from carter in a general election with carter at this time in the election cycle. That's not an "ideal" candidate. trump is doing better at this point against Hillary assuming she's not indicted.
The "republican brand?" Seriously? It's a pathetic brand in the eyes of many including myself. I and many also think the democratic "brand" is a mess and sander's success is showing this front and center. The party is going far left to show their disapproval. The people aren't happy and voting accordingly.
I will tell you this....you want to see a beyond damaged brand? Let the "owners" of either party pick a candidate who didn't get the primary majority vote/delegates, even if it's within "the rules" of the party, and you'll see a generation flee both parties. About time I say. Maybe we'll end the party fixation nonsense, get some viable independent candidates running, and make our founding father John Adams very happy.
Well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
As for your GOP voter totals, DO look at them. More GOP voters have voted for someone else than have voted for Trump.
That's because he's run against 16 other candidates.
Math -- it's a good idea to pay attention to it.
Clinton didn't win a majority of the vote in 1992, but he still won the presidency.
That's because he had the largest number of votes, followed by Bush, followed by Perot if I remember correctly.
Sure, Republican Party, go ahead and pick a nominee who has fewer votes than the front runner.
Then watch your party collapse....probably for good!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Yes, it's an ideal candidate if that candidate supports the proposals, goals and priorities of the party. The party is looking for a representative. REPRESENTATIVE. Someone who represents them with the general population. Someone whose political personality matches the identity that the party has built. Trump doesn't do this.
The party has a choice -- take the scolding it deserves from its voters who prefer Trump, or commit suicide.
The Republican Party hasn't been representative of its voters for years -- that's the problem!
It's only been representative of special interests.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
In other words, you don't think that smaller, less populous states should have any say in elections? Because that's what the popular vote would result in. The electoral college was designed to give smaller states some say in the election. Popular vote would result in basically New York and California picking the president every 4 years.
Even if each state got the exact same number of delegates, Trump would still be winning.
He's won nearly twice as many states as Cruz.
Quote:
And no one as of yet has been able to tell me how Trump if elected president will be able to put a stop to this "gravy train" either.
Isn't it obvious?
Lobbyists will have no sway over Trump because he hasn't accepted any large donations from special interests.
Quote:
You realize Trump won't be able to make laws, right?
He will be able to change regulations, issue executive orders, appoint a cabinet, fire federal workers (within limits), nominate supreme court justices and other federal judges, order his Justice Department to do things (such as investigate Hillary and Obama and their corruption) -- and, oh, yeah, laws DON'T get created without the signature of the President.
Quote:
Oh and, why would Trump ever want to put a stop ( even if he could ) to a the "gravy train" that even he admits he took part and bought so much influence in as a business man?
Here we go again with this lame argument.
Trump is not running to be a businessman.
If he wanted to buy politicians, he could just remain a businessman and do that.
That's because he's run against 16 other candidates.
Math -- it's a good idea to pay attention to it.
Clinton didn't win a majority of the vote in 1992, but he still won the presidency.
That's because he had the largest number of votes, followed by Bush, followed by Perot if I remember correctly.
Sure, Republican Party, go ahead and pick a nominee who has fewer votes than the front runner.
Then watch your party collapse....probably for good! .
Clinton had 48% of the vote to Bush's 37% and Perot's 18% - so he did not get 50% of the popular vote to have a majority, just a plurality. He became president despite only getting a plurality of the ordinary people's votes because he got 370 of the 538 votes of the Electoral College, well over the required 270. Had he gotten 269, even if he got over 50% of the popular vote, it would have gone to the House of Repersentatives. By the way, even though Perot got 18% of the popular vote he got 0 of the Electorial College vote.
Trump doesn't earn or deserve the Republican nomination unless he gets the 1,237 delegates. This is nothing new, the 50%+1 delegate threshold has been the rule since the Republican Party's inception.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
Clinton had 48% of the vote to Bush's 37% and Perot's 18% - so he did not get 50% of the popular vote to have a majority, just a plurality. He became president despite only getting a plurality of the ordinary people's votes because he got 370 of the 538 votes of the Electoral College, well over the required 270. Had he gotten 269, even if he got over 50% of the popular vote, it would have gone to the House of Repersentatives. By the way, even though Perot got 18% of the popular vote he got 0 of the Electorial College vote.
Trump doesn't earn or deserve the Republican nomination unless he gets the 1,237 delegates. This is nothing new, the 50%+1 delegate threshold has been the rule since the Republican Party's inception.
All of that might be true, but Trump has enough supporters that the Republican Party will be finished if he is close to the 1237 and doesn't get the nomination.
That's the POLITICAL reality right now.
And it's a political reality because voters are disgusted with their party leadership.
No, they don't "serve" the public. The political parties are private organizations of like minded people banding together to operate as a cohesive group for a common goal. The public has no right to demand a say in who their nominee is, the public does have a right to choose to vote or not vote for that nominee.
Then what in the world is the purpose of the primaries? If the will of the majority of voters is ignored, why even bother voting in the primaries? It's all a sham......the nominee is chosen well before any primaries begin.
The delegate process was originally intended for them to represent the voters interest. It has morphed into more power to a few while the will of the people is ignored. I agree with creme....the whole situation is disgusting.
Then what in the world is the purpose of the primaries? If the will of the majority of voters is ignored, why even bother voting in the primaries? It's all a sham......the nominee is chosen well before any primaries begin.
The delegate process was originally intended for them to represent the voters interest. It has morphed into more power to a few while the will of the people is ignored. I agree with creme....the whole situation is disgusting.
It is but one part of the selection process. It allows the party to know a candidate's electability and level of support. It is also a long enough process that there is a chance to get most of the skeletons out of the closet and expose the warts.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
The parties have always been private organizations focused on politically advancing the party's interests. ALWAYS. From day one.
What we're witnessing in the GOP is the kind of upheaval when portions of that party aren't identifying with that party anymore. And it's happened before.
You should read up on Teddy Roosevelt.
I think what we are witnessing is the party isn't identifying with the voters anymore.
The GOP is extremely insular and we saw what happened when Paul supporters tried to get involved. Outrage by the established party members who didn't welcome them with open arms and disenfranchised them at every turn. It's a similar situation now that Trump supporters are getting involved.
The GOP is very satisfied with the status quo. It is pathetic when they say they want new blood in their ranks, but discourage it at every turn.
I think what we are witnessing is the party isn't identifying with the voters anymore.
The GOP is extremely insular and we saw what happened when Paul supporters tried to get involved. Outrage by the established party members who didn't welcome them with open arms and disenfranchised them at every turn. It's a similar situation now that Trump supporters are getting involved.
The GOP is very satisfied with the status quo. It is pathetic when they say they want new blood in their ranks, but discourage it at every turn.
Well said.
It's time for the Republican Party to collapse. It has become useless to its voters.
The same, of course, goes for the Democrat Party. But Democrat voters are too stupid to see it.
All of that might be true, but Trump has enough supporters that the Republican Party will be finished if he is close to the 1237 and doesn't get the nomination.
That's the POLITICAL reality right now.
And it's a political reality because voters are disgusted with their party leadership.
This is the year of the outsider, like it or not.
It is the year of the outsider and the Republican electorate is not deferring to their betters this time around, that is for sure.
All that being said, Donald Trump is a world class turd of a man who unsurprisingly does not appear to have the majority support of the Republican Party. That is true whether you want to talk about that in terms of:
The electorate (Trump has not gotten 50% support anywhere, much less across the board),
The delegates (he does not appear to be on track to reach 1,237 delegates on the first ballot, which is the minimum cutoff for 50% support among delegates), or
The leading elected officeholders of Republican party.
Trump and his supporters appear to believe that his failure to reach this level of support can be resolved by calling names, constantly telling lies, smearing and attacking people, all while having very public temper-tantrums and hissy-fits. All this in an effort to bully and intimidate the Republican party delegates and presidential selection apparatus into capitulating to his demands and awarding him the Republican nomination regardless of the lack of majority support, or else he and his supporters will destroy the Republican party.
This is emotional terrorism, just like a spoiled child. Also, just like the terrorists do, Trump is making demands, trying to intimidate and bully people, forcing them to capitulate to his will, or else he will destroy anyone who tries to resist. It would be better for the Republican party to be destroyed than for it to continue to function under the domination of someone who gained control of it by these means.
So, perhaps the Republican party will be destroyed. At least they will be rid of Trump and the nonsense that goes with him. They would be fools to capitulate to him or his mob of thugs and bullies. And credit to them, it does not appear that they will.
It is the year of the outsider and the Republican electorate is not deferring to their betters this time around, that is for sure.
All that being said, Donald Trump is a world class turd of a man who unsurprisingly does not appear to have the majority support of the Republican Party. That is true whether you want to talk about that in terms of:
The electorate (Trump has not gotten 50% support anywhere, much less across the board),
The delegates (he does not appear to be on track to reach 1,237 delegates on the first ballot, which is the minimum cutoff for 50% support among delegates), or
The leading elected officeholders of Republican party.
Trump and his supporters appear to believe that his failure to reach this level of support can be resolved by calling names, constantly telling lies, smearing and attacking people, all while having very public temper-tantrums and hissy-fits. All this in an effort to bully and intimidate the Republican party delegates and presidential selection apparatus into capitulating to his demands and awarding him the Republican nomination regardless of the lack of majority support, or else he and his supporters will destroy the Republican party.
This is emotional terrorism, just like a spoiled child. Also, just like the terrorists do, Trump is making demands, trying to intimidate and bully people, forcing them to capitulate to his will, or else he will destroy anyone who tries to resist. It would be better for the Republican party to be destroyed than for it to continue to function under the domination of someone who gained control of it by these means.
So, perhaps the Republican party will be destroyed. At least they will be rid of Trump and the nonsense that goes with him. They would be fools to capitulate to him or his mob of thugs and bullies. And credit to them, it does not appear that they will.
Excellent assessment of the situation. Unfortunately, you can't explain something to people who don't want to see the reality of their situation.
Excellent assessment of the situation. Unfortunately, you can't explain something to people who don't want to see the reality of their situation.
The reality of the situation is that Trump is the ONLY candidate who has a chance to get to 1,237 - and that with all of the MSM attacks and the RNC out to stop him. You would have thought he would have folded up his tent and went home a long time ago like Rubio / Bush and the rest of the "GOP".
59% of the remaining delegates is definitely doable with so many states in the Northeast and him leading in Cali. So your post and the previous assessment mean squat even though we know your every post is not about anything substantive, but influencing the voters on C-D that Trump is not the one.
Thank God you only have one vote ...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
