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Old 07-23-2016, 12:42 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,570,807 times
Reputation: 7222

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About three-quarters of the way through his Friday 7/22 show, Lawrence O'Donnell absolutely eviscerates Trump. O'Donnell notes that Trump dodged military service during the Vietnam War, which makes his attack on John McCain obscene to true American patriots.

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...isoner-of-war/

For those who grew up during the Vietnam War, we have many stories about how persons avoided the draft through medical deferments and privileged access to the National Guard (where appointments often were politically arranged; unlike today, National Guard units during he Vietnam War rarely were called to active combat service). I knew one guy who ran through snow in bare feet for several days to get a medical deferment. The disdain for the Vietnam War was so great, that persons used to brag about how they managed to avoid active combat duty. And the stories of my friends who actively engaged in combat in Vietnam are equally disturbing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...9f4_story.html

It amazes me that any American veteran can tolerate Trump after his attack on John McCain. Trump, the "showman," shows actual disdain for someone who indisputably carried the burden of battle. Trump, in the famed words of Thomas Paine at the "Crisis"-filled birth of the American nation, is much less than a "summer soldier," or even a "sunshine patriot" as evidenced by Trump's comments about McCain, something beyond the pale of even the most superficial of patriots.

<< The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.>>

December 23, 1776

How do we elect a man President who clearly did not show John McCain the "love and thanks" that McCain clearly earned with his military service?

O'Donnell also notes that the Trump's privileged children also made the Trump "easy decision" and avoided military service.

If the truth were known, I personally suspect that Trump advised his children to avoid military service, that it only is for chumps. There is IMO no coming back from Trump's comments about John McCain. Trump's McCain comments suggest to me that Trump does NOT understand that "Freedom is not free," except perhaps for the likes of the Trumps.

Trump's lack of military service combined with his hawkish blustering should be important to all Americans because Presidents who have seen no combat -- such as Johnson, Nixon, and George W. Bush (again who used privilege to join the air force National Guard and avoid Vietnam service), all have made disastrous and costly military decisions that have caused great harm collectively to millions of American families and the American economy. Contrast that to the likes of Harry Truman and Eisenhower who were extremely conscious of the realities of war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George...ce_controversy

Trump's hawkish blustering and self-proclaimed military diplomatic expertise IMO is an obvious sham. Instead, with Trump's comments on ISIS (declare war), Iran, NATO, Putin, etc., he's demonstrated instead ignorance and a willingness to rush to poor decisions, with disturbing consequences even for a Presidential candidate.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/elect...-but-send.html

Donald Trump Gets Bipartisan Condemnation for NATO Comments - ABC News

What particularly bothers me is Trump's blustering that the U.S. has the military muscle to forcefully evict China from the South China Sea. That's a very dangerous and likely inaccurate assumption that might cost the American nation immensely if Trump actually were elected President IMO.

E.g., Johnson and Nixon never honored Douglas MacArthur's admonishment that America should avoid an Asian land war. The point is that a good President must know the limits of American power, and the cost of war. Trump repeatedly has proven that he understands neither, and the American electorate should be concerned, IMO terrified.

https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/2011...-land-war-asia

Last edited by WRnative; 07-23-2016 at 01:10 AM..

 
Old 07-23-2016, 02:23 AM
 
6,977 posts, read 5,746,397 times
Reputation: 5180
none of this matters if you want true and profound change and a guy who's going to work hard to straighten things out. There's only one option if you want positive change, its not rocket science but seems like people are making it out to be.
 
Old 07-23-2016, 02:34 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,570,807 times
Reputation: 7222
Quote:
Originally Posted by wall st kid View Post
none of this matters


Lives and fortune squandered in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan do matter, so unless you don't mind another chapter in this book, recognize the charlatan Trump, the Trump of Trump University, before it's too late.

The belittling of an American who fought the battle and suffered immeasurably long years as a POW does matter, immensely so to true patriots.

Expecting a President to be informed, respectful of the cost of military action in terms of blood and fortune, and not prone to rash statements, does matter.

Trump's statements and personal history should matter a lot to any American voter who isn't halfway brain dead.
 
Old 07-23-2016, 03:12 AM
 
22,596 posts, read 12,168,827 times
Reputation: 20570
And when did Obama serve? How about Bill Clinton? Clinton never served because he was a draft dodger. And Hillary made "the easy decision" and didn't serve. Neither did Chelsea.

As for the rest of your post---this topic has been discussed before. It's old news.
 
Old 07-23-2016, 03:45 AM
 
9,418 posts, read 13,567,280 times
Reputation: 10311
OP, you lost them at "hawkish blustering" and Trump's attack on McCain, which was appalling.
 
Old 07-23-2016, 05:54 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,413 posts, read 20,025,200 times
Reputation: 26024
Maybe it was good not to be involved in a mismanaged war that we lost? Maybe all the Democratic draft dodgers and anti-war protestors will vote for Trump?
 
Old 07-23-2016, 06:33 AM
 
34,297 posts, read 15,750,955 times
Reputation: 13053
Crooked Hillary could have joined the military. Nothing was stopping her. Many women were in military serving the country at the time she was eligible. Why should she get a pass ?
 
Old 07-23-2016, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Kansas
26,239 posts, read 22,408,737 times
Reputation: 27122
Trump on McCain? He isn't the only one who didn't see him as a "hero": The War Secrets Sen. John McCain Hides and John McCain: War Hero or Something Less? - Antiwar.com Original by -- Antiwar.com I don't like McCain. I lived in AZ when he was a Senator and studied up on him.

Yes, all of this has been discussed before. Myself and my husband are military veterans, his mother and my father were military veterans, my son is active duty and we don't have an issue of Trump's lack of military service. If I did, being a female, I would have expected Hillary to have served also, you know, "equality".

To me, long ago and far away, mixed with the desperation of the Democratic Party, make this all so irrelevant.
 
Old 07-23-2016, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
15,153 posts, read 11,678,624 times
Reputation: 8631
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
And when did Obama serve? How about Bill Clinton? Clinton never served because he was a draft dodger. And Hillary made "the easy decision" and didn't serve. Neither did Chelsea.

As for the rest of your post---this topic has been discussed before. It's old news.
Seems odd that the left wing DB's who absolutely HATE the military would complain that Trump was not in the military. Would they be happy if he did?
 
Old 07-23-2016, 06:49 AM
 
11,985 posts, read 5,337,796 times
Reputation: 7284
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
About three-quarters of the way through his Friday 7/22 show, Lawrence O'Donnell absolutely eviscerates Trump. O'Donnell notes that Trump dodged military service during the Vietnam War, which makes his attack on John McCain obscene to true American patriots.

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...isoner-of-war/

For those who grew up during the Vietnam War, we have many stories about how persons avoided the draft through medical deferments and privileged access to the National Guard (where appointments often were politically arranged; unlike today, National Guard units during he Vietnam War rarely were called to active combat service). I knew one guy who ran through snow in bare feet for several days to get a medical deferment. The disdain for the Vietnam War was so great, that persons used to brag about how they managed to avoid active combat duty. And the stories of my friends who actively engaged in combat in Vietnam are equally disturbing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...9f4_story.html

It amazes me that any American veteran can tolerate Trump after his attack on John McCain. Trump, the "showman," shows actual disdain for someone who indisputably carried the burden of battle. Trump, in the famed words of Thomas Paine at the "Crisis"-filled birth of the American nation, is much less than a "summer soldier," or even a "sunshine patriot" as evidenced by Trump's comments about McCain, something beyond the pale of even the most superficial of patriots.

<< The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.>>

December 23, 1776

How do we elect a man President who clearly did not show John McCain the "love and thanks" that McCain clearly earned with his military service?

O'Donnell also notes that the Trump's privileged children also made the Trump "easy decision" and avoided military service.

If the truth were known, I personally suspect that Trump advised his children to avoid military service, that it only is for chumps. There is IMO no coming back from Trump's comments about John McCain. Trump's McCain comments suggest to me that Trump does NOT understand that "Freedom is not free," except perhaps for the likes of the Trumps.

Trump's lack of military service combined with his hawkish blustering should be important to all Americans because Presidents who have seen no combat -- such as Johnson, Nixon, and George W. Bush (again who used privilege to join the air force National Guard and avoid Vietnam service), all have made disastrous and costly military decisions that have caused great harm collectively to millions of American families and the American economy. Contrast that to the likes of Harry Truman and Eisenhower who were extremely conscious of the realities of war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George...ce_controversy

Trump's hawkish blustering and self-proclaimed military diplomatic expertise IMO is an obvious sham. Instead, with Trump's comments on ISIS (declare war), Iran, NATO, Putin, etc., he's demonstrated instead ignorance and a willingness to rush to poor decisions, with disturbing consequences even for a Presidential candidate.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/elect...-but-send.html

Donald Trump Gets Bipartisan Condemnation for NATO Comments - ABC News

What particularly bothers me is Trump's blustering that the U.S. has the military muscle to forcefully evict China from the South China Sea. That's a very dangerous and likely inaccurate assumption that might cost the American nation immensely if Trump actually were elected President IMO.

E.g., Johnson and Nixon never honored Douglas MacArthur's admonishment that America should avoid an Asian land war. The point is that a good President must know the limits of American power, and the cost of war. Trump repeatedly has proven that he understands neither, and the American electorate should be concerned, IMO terrified.

https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/2011...-land-war-asia
What I thought was particularly offensive was Trump denigrating McCain's war record after telling Howard Stern that his "personal Vietnam" was fear of getting an STD when he was safe in NYC.

John McCain was being tortured in captivity while he was banging models and he had the gall to call it his "personal Vietnam"?
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