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Old 10-28-2016, 07:04 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
Reputation: 10651

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The campaign of Donald Trump has explored brand new territory here in 2016. This election will be the ultimate test of whether our little American experiment in freedom will survive into the future, or whether it will die an untimely death, as has been experienced throughout history with other adventures in democracy.

Why is Donald Trump so different and why is he so dangerous? This is not complicated, it really comes to down to values. Either you value the concept of democracy, or you don't. Either you value fair and free elections or you don't. Either you value the freedom of speech and of the press, or you don't. Either you align yourself with the champions of freedom and democracy or you align yourself with autocrats and demagogues.

Donald Trump has shown us that he values none of the above. He values only one thing - winning this election, at any cost. He has shown us that he will happily partner with one of the most detested and feared leaders in modern times, Vladimir Putin, if that is an advantage to him. He has shown us that he will not hesitate to use information gleaned from enemy espionage in order to influence an American election. He has repeatedly made false and inflammatory statements regarding the integrity of the American election system in order to cast doubt on the outcome. He has shown no hesitation to use his great wealth to stifle speech by instituting lawsuits against those that dare oppose him.

It becomes clear that Donald Trump, deep down, detests the very concept of the American system of democracy - for one simple reason. He can't control it. We know from looking at Trump's history that he will overwhelm or destroy that which he cannot control. Trump understands clearly that if this election proceeds in a legitimate manner, that he will undoubtedly lose. Therefore he will use any and all tactics to win - even if it requires inflicting lasting damage to America's democratic institutions.

The puzzling thing about all of this is why the Trump supporters continue to follow him down this path of destruction. A recent poll suggested that 43% of Trump supporters believe that the election will be "rigged". We have to face the reality is that those followers and Donald Trump have one thing in common. Deep down, they also hate the American system of free elections and free speech and they share Trump's zeal to undermine them. They are screaming for change, and by God they will have it at any cost. Even if it means that they end up under the thumb of a sociopathic wanna-be dictator.

 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:08 AM
 
2,908 posts, read 3,874,059 times
Reputation: 3170
One question.......what planet are you living on?
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Arizona
6,131 posts, read 7,988,699 times
Reputation: 8272
Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
One question.......what planet are you living on?
The real one.

Not TrumpWorld.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:12 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
One question.......what planet are you living on?
So you agree with me? If not please present your rationale.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:14 AM
 
7,275 posts, read 5,286,513 times
Reputation: 11477
You know what Trump has really done? He has exposed a lot of things in government that others would sweep under the carpet or were afraid to bring up. Why do you think he obliterated the GOP in the primaries? Because everyone else paraded by the GOP were from the goon squad. The corruption that has existed in government for who knows how long, even though people knew about it, was brought to the biggest stage in front of the entire world to see by Trump.

You may not believe in his morality, you may just plain not like him. Trump may honestly not be the right person for president because he lacks experience to deal with what exists inside the steel walls of government. But a very important thing he has done is truly opened the eyes for real change. Government as we know it now is corrupt. I believe Hillary is a liar and integrated deeply in the corruption.

Is he a threat to democracy? Right now I see him as a threat to the establishment, and that's what scares all the insiders.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:18 AM
 
11,755 posts, read 7,118,859 times
Reputation: 8011
Well, at the end of the day, I don't care about his racism, mysogeny, xenophobia, religious intolerance and so on (well, I do but probably not top considerations).

But I do care that he clearly doesn't know anything, and hasn't made an effort to bone up on facts and policy in the last 18 months. I care about his lack of self-control and empathy, as well as his arrogance, ego, ignorance, delusion, unpreparedness, lack of attention to details, inability to perceive reality, lack of basic mastery of the English language, so on.

Before his candidacy, I generally had a positive view of him, mostly from spending years in NYC in the 80/90s, watching the Apprentice, and some indirect business interactions. I still kinda like the guy . . . . he's got charisma . . . . . I don't think he is a racist in the true sense of the word.

What a let down. I so wanted him to be a great candidate. I give him and Bernie credit for identifying the populist sentiment in this country. It was much needed.

Mick
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:22 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
You know what Trump has really done? He has exposed a lot of things in government that others would sweep under the carpet or were afraid to bring up. Why do you think he obliterated the GOP in the primaries? Because everyone else paraded by the GOP were from the goon squad. The corruption that has existed in government for who knows how long, even though people knew about it, was brought to the biggest stage in front of the entire world to see by Trump.

You may not believe in his morality, you may just plain not like him. Trump may honestly not be the right person for president because he lacks experience to deal with what exists inside the steel walls of government. But a very important thing he has done is truly opened the eyes for real change. Government as we know it now is corrupt. I believe Hillary is a liar and integrated deeply in the corruption.

Is he a threat to democracy? Right now I see him as a threat to the establishment, and that's what scares all the insiders.
It's a fair point. No question there is corruption at all levels of Federal and State government - we've known this for decades. Maybe we have more visibility into that now. Where I disagree with you is about Donald Trump's motivations. I don't think he give a rat's a$$ about cleaning up the corruption, that's just another talking point he uses to fire up his supporters. I think he would happily institute new forms of corruption if that would help to feather his nest. The idea that he's going to actually FIX any of these corrupt practices is a fantasy.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,846,967 times
Reputation: 41863
I've never really gotten where this feeling of "The government is corrupt" comes from. China may have a corrupt government, Russia may have a corrupt government, North Korea may have a corrupt government, but America still has one of the most open, transparent, people driven governments on this planet.

Are we perfect ? No, there is always room for improvement in anything. But the people who think all of the Senators, Congressmen, and Presidents somehow sit around in smoke filled rooms, plotting things for their own agenda, is simply not right. I believe that the people we send to Washington are simply like you and me.......not perfect, but not out to screw us either.

Some people must have really screwed up lives, or views of how things are in America, to feel the way they do. All I can say is, thank God this is where I was born and where I live. People have NO IDEA how good we all have it here, maybe because we have never experienced what other people in the world live like. Hillary said it best when she said " He says he will make America Great Again, but it has always been great, and good."

Amen.


Don
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:31 AM
 
11,755 posts, read 7,118,859 times
Reputation: 8011
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
I've never really gotten where this feeling of "The government is corrupt" comes from. China may have a corrupt government, Russia may have a corrupt government, North Korea may have a corrupt government, but America still has one of the most open, transparent, people driven governments on this planet.

Are we perfect ? No, there is always room for improvement in anything. But the people who think all of the Senators, Congressmen, and Presidents somehow sit around in smoke filled rooms, plotting things for their own agenda, is simply not right. I believe that the people we send to Washington are simply like you and me.......not perfect, but not out to screw us either.

Some people must have really screwed up lives, or views of how things are in America, to feel the way they do. All I can say is, thank God this is where I was born and where I live. People have NO IDEA how good we all have it here, maybe because we have never experienced what other people in the world live like. Hillary said it best when she said " He says he will make America Great Again, but it has always been great, and good."

Amen.


Don
True. "Corruption" exists here mostly because the politicians desperately want to be elected/reelected, and they need a lot of money to win. It is relatively rare that politicians are actually stealing or accepting money for their own financial benefit. Of course, there is some nepotism in terms of securing internship for their imbecile kids and such, but you see that everyday in any country club -- that's what rich folks do for each other. In sum, corruption exists because of extravagant election spending.

Mick
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: NH
4,214 posts, read 3,761,938 times
Reputation: 6762
Democracy? I think you need to look up the definition of Democracy.


When you have two opposing parties that are doing everything they can to prevent one candidate from getting the Presidency, you know you have your man. They are afraid all the years they have invested to make the government as corrupt as it is today will be ripped apart. They will do everything in their power to make sure "the outsider" is not elected.


The first step in removing corruption is putting someone in power who owes no one favors and no one owes them favors. This step also begins with the voter, don't believe everything your hear, do your research, and don't vote for a specific party, vote for the individual. If you don't like either, vote for Mickey Mouse.
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