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Since you are a firm embracer of the Obama candidacty would you please share with us how his thinking is superior to the other candidates? It is important that you do that to show that he so superior the only reason to support Clinton is sex and racism. To let you now I am torn between Obama and McCain and much will depend on their VP choice. I don't want a Clinton or a Romney near 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. We have had enough of political families in the White House.
a lot of people seem to be really missing the point. i'll admit that i am very tempted to resort to bold print but i wont. please read carefully: there is nothing wrong (deceptive) with being a John McCain supporter or with being a hillary clinton supporter; even if you are a woman (or man for that matter) who wants her to be elected simply because she is a woman. i get it. if not her, who; and if not now, when? there have been 43 white male presidents of these United States and 0.0 female presidents - just as there have been 0.0 black men or other racial minorities ever elected president.
but if your candidate of choice is hillary clinton; and if she loses the nomination, you would not support, but would in fact oppose Barrack Obama, who shares similar stances on most of the important issues of the day - by supporting John McCain, who represents more of the same policies which both Senators clinton and Obama oppose, then it can only be for one of the three reasons i have laid forth. it may just simply be reason # 3 (misdirected anger at the man who fairly, and without trickery or scandal, won the majority of votes by the American people) - but for many here, reason #2 in particular seems to strike a nerve.
now, to answer your question "how is Obama's thinking superior to the other two candidates" i can actually think of many. one example would be the simple fact that nobody-and i mean nobody was talking about change until they saw how that message worked for BarracK Obama. he is the only candidate who's core message has remained unchanged since the onset of the campaign. also, he is the only candidate who is talking about getting the public involved politics and having politics public.
let me tell you something else, in an elected official, i'm looking for honesty before i'm looking for experience. and on that end i would rate Obama above McCain, and, obviously, way above hillary.
yeah, right. please understand that while we cannot see your face, i, along with everyone else who reads your thoughts can see right through you. it is just a fact that if you want hillary clinton to be the next president, which obviously isnt going to happen, and your next choice is John McCain you either:
1. are obsessed with hillary clinton becoming president of the United States because she is a woman and you are a feminist.
2. are obsessed with denying Barrack Obama of the presidency because he is black and you are a racist.
3. are obsessed with denying Obama the presidency because you are so upset by the fact that given a choice, the American people prefer him over your prefered candidate, hillary clinton - who he defeated fairly in the race for the Democratic nomination.
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"uh, no, i value John McCains experience and his hawkish foriegn policy. while i support hillary clinton for president, i do, on the other hand think that we'll be better off staying in Iraq indefinitely. i also feel that a war with Iran would be good for our economy. and George Bush's fiscal policy has always made a lot of sense to me. and also, age is something that i look for in a candidate. "
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Funny you should ask this question. This is one Obama supporters can't seem to answer but they will point you towards his campaign website. A few of us tried to ask detailed questions awhile back and were basically given the brush-off.
really? well, i wont give you the brush-off. i find it hard to believe that no Obama supporters on this forum have been able to reply to such a question. for starters:
Quote:
the simple fact that nobody-and i mean nobody was talking about change until they saw how that message worked for BarracK Obama. he is the only candidate who's core message has remained unchanged since the onset of the campaign. also, he is the only candidate who is talking about getting the public involved politics and having politics public.
also, at least Barrack Obama (and i think hillary clinton) supports our troops. Obama supports the new GI bill where John McCain and a few other Republican do not. i find it funny how the very people who are so quick to use support for our troops as a political lever are the very same politicians who do not actually support our troops where the rubber hits the road.
i served active duty in the military for 10 years. try to understand that supporting the troops isnt disregarding their well-being, and their families' well-being and sending them into the ****ing meat grinder while waving a flag around and chanting U.S.A.
Funny you should ask this question. This is one Obama supporters can't seem to answer but they will point you towards his campaign website. A few of us tried to ask detailed questions awhile back and were basically given the brush-off.
Well where shall I begin. I think a good starting support is his embracing of behavioral economics which is the newer way of thinking. If you are familiar with the Shiller/Case housing report which is widely embraced by media, government and wall street as being one of the best predictors of the housing market. It uses normal metrics along behavioral psychology to predict human behavior in the market place. It also presents a way to help influence the best human behavior in finances. Shiller along with Richard Thaler are key leaders within the movement. Thaler is a top economics advisor to Obama.
One of the reasons so many young well educated college graduates embrace Obama is because he is current with their learnings. Much as many of us were educated to the teaching of John Maynard Keynes and his Keynesian theory of economics. This thinking has been the underpinning of capitalism and government deficit spending. If we have practiced to much of his teachings then perhaps it is TIME FOR A CHANGE. I have posted in another thread the May 7 Gallup poll which shows Obama with a strong lead. Perhaps that is because so many Jewish voters are well eductaed, in tuned with modern thinking and have a key sense of economics and finance.
On the other hand if you still believe that monetary policy is the best way to influence the market place and that you believe the regulation of the money supply will cure all ills then you still embrace it. However there are those who would say that philosophy is now being challenged and that in fact the expansion of the money supply by Greenspan created the current mess. However if you embrace either Kenysian or Monetary then Obama and the Behaviorist may be to new or modern for you. However if you have done your homework and understand the new thinkers ( Keynes was radical at one time) then perhaps you are a candidate for CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN. Hopefully now you can no longer say that one who supports the presidency of Obama has never explained to you what he believes in. I have provided you with links so you can research and share with us why you reject Shiller etc. However if you are waiting for house prices to come down because he said so then maybe you want to embrace. However if you insist on being a moneterist you may want to go buy since the fed has cut rates and we all know that is how you stimulate human behavior in the 21st century. It is isn't ? Drats maybe we need a CHANGE
School is now over. Have a great Memorial Day and after you have had chance to read and ponder we look forward to hearing the learned responses from everyone about why this is not a good change and why traditional thinking still bodes well for future years.
Linson I feel sorry for you. Even a strongly committed Obama supporter pointed out that your answer choices were too narrow and you still don't have a clue.
For the record I'm going to tell you why this loyal Hillary supporter and lifelong Democrat will not be supporting Barack Obama. My answer is neither 1,2 or 3 on your list
I'm not for John McCain as much as I am against Barack Obama.
Now just because we have a difference of opinion let's not resort to calling each other names.
Let me explain.
Obama is much more liberal than Senator Hillary Clinton. In fact Obama's voting record in the senate has been the most liberal of all US senators, even more liberal than "Mr. Liberal" Senator Ted Kennedy!
Compared to Obama, Hillary Clinton is a moderate politically while Obama is on the far left liberal fringe, approaching socialsm.
It has been well documented that Barack Obama grew up with a mother who opposed our form of Constitutional Democracy and called herself a "Fellow Traveler" which is a buzzword for a Communist sympathizer. When Barack returned to HI to finish high school his mother arranged for Barack to receive informal lessons on Marxism from Communist poet Frank Marshall Davis. In his book Barack refers to Davis as "Frank, a father figure".
I'm not saying Barack Obama is a Communist but I am saying that his past record both in the IL Senate and the US Senate is very liberal. I'm saying that he supports and promotes an agenda that is socialistic. I'm saying that his platform on his webpage is very leftist.
I don't like that.
Maybe you do.
I also have issues with Obama's friends. It seems he attracts a group of bad characters. Rezko, a crook. Rev. Wright, a certified nut. Ayers and Dohrn terrorist bombers. Rashid and Mona Khalidi supporters of violent Palestinian groups....just to name a few.
secondly, i will say that to some extent, your arguement at least makes some sense. but can you characterize for me what is a "liberal voting record." because if by liberal, you mean pro choice, supports gay marriage, then what your saying is that he falls on the left side of what are essentially non-issues; things that don't effect your ability to give your children a better quality of life than you had.
George Bush is pro-life. who cares? has the fact that George Bush is pro-life prevented one single abortion from happening? is your life going to change whatsoever if gay people are allowed to enter into marriage? this is what Obama meant when he spoke of people clinging to guns and religion. people voting against their economic interest because a pull of the ballot doesnt change the course of the economy, and voting on the basis of divisive non-issues, which which make no difference in the lives of those pulling the ballots.
btw, i am no communist, but i must say that the direction of our government over the last 7 years has bore an uncany resemblence to Facism. (in practice, not merely in learning and association)
Senator Clinton has run three political campaigns (2x senator, once President)
Senator Obama has run seven political campaigns (4x state sen, 1x congress, 1x senator, once President)
Based on his experience running campaigns, he should have locked this up a long time ago. He more than doubles her campaign experience.
This is flawed logic. His experience running campaigns has shown us who is the superior campaigner, do you agree?
Clearly he has set the entire Presidential marketing strategy on it's head. Senator Obama has fundamentally changed how candidates will raise funds forever. He has singlehandedly broken every campaign record, while fundamentally changing how campaign funds are raised, as well as involving a demographic that critics have mentioned continuously, over the years - If the youth ever show up to vote they will change the face of the Elections for whomever that candidate is.
secondly, i will say that to some extent, your arguement at least makes some sense. but can you characterize for me what is a "liberal voting record." because if by liberal, you mean pro choice, supports gay marriage, then what your saying is that he falls on the left side of what are essentially non-issues; things that don't effect your ability to give your children a better quality of life than you had.
George Bush is pro-life. who cares? has the fact that George Bush is pro-life prevented one single abortion from happening? is your life going to change whatsoever if gay people are allowed to enter into marriage? this is what Obama meant when he spoke of people clinging to guns and religion. people voting against their economic interest because a pull of the ballot doesnt change the course of the economy, and voting on the basis of divisive non-issues, which which make no difference in the lives of those pulling the ballots.
btw, i am no communist, but i must say that the direction of our government over the last 7 years has bore an uncany resemblence to Facism. (in practice, not merely in learning and association)
Linson,
You aren't going to trick me into defending George Bush. I didn't vote for him. I held my nose and voted for that idiot John Kerry wishing I had another choice. I wish we had another choice in this election too. I'm only lukewarm about the fighter pilot and I wouldn't vote for Obama for dogcatcher. He's selling America a Sack 'O Sh_t. He's as phony as any politician I've ever seen. At least with Hillary you know you're going to get a tough old broad who will stand up to our enemies and not take a lot of BS. Obama's such a wuss he's liable to bend over. He wants to have a discussion. Have you ever won a fight by saying lets sit down and talk this over? Me either! The "Wuss Way" will not work!
As far as Abortion not being an issue I think you are dead wrong about that. Probably as dead as those born alive babies in Illinois that Barack Obama allowed to be murdered by refusing to vote for a ban on live birth abortions.
You see, Communists don't value human life very highly. You need to read up on the brutality of the Marxist revolution.
Linson,
You aren't going to trick me into defending George Bush. I didn't vote for him. I held my nose and voted for that idiot John Kerry wishing I had another choice. I wish we had another choice in this election too. I'm only lukewarm about the fighter pilot and I wouldn't vote for Obama for dogcatcher. He's selling America a Sack 'O Sh_t. He's as phony as any politician I've ever seen. At least with Hillary you know you're going to get a tough old broad who will stand up to our enemies and not take a lot of BS. Obama's such a wuss he's liable to bend over. He wants to have a discussion. Have you ever won a fight by saying lets sit down and talk this over? Me either! The "Wuss Way" will not work!
As far as Abortion not being an issue I think you are dead wrong about that. Probably as dead as those born alive babies in Illinois that Barack Obama allowed to be murdered by refusing to vote for a ban on live birth abortions.
You see, Communists don't value human life very highly. You need to read up on the brutality of the Marxist revolution.
see, i gave you the benifit of the doubt and you give me this logic. i'm not trying to trick you into anything. i mean, come on! it's 2008 and you're still worried about "commies" . wake up! the commies aint a-comin'.
so you're saying you need a tough-guy president who sticks his chest out and says to "bring it the **** on!" "have i ever won a fight by by talking it over?" i dont go around looking for fights. do you know what a "chicken hawk" is? because you sound like one. i do believe in peace through strength and strength through prosperity. strength in our military is not achieved by stretching them so thin in contrived conflicts whenever and wherever the opportunity presents itself. btw, if you wanna talk about sexism, the only reason that hillary clinton has a tough-guy persona is because she is a woman. she aint tough, and she is not a leader. she does what she calculates will get her the most votes, and when that is unclear, she does what her handlers tell her to do. just look at her trainwreck of a campaign thus far. the only thing we know about hillary clinton is that she is dishonest, insincere, and keniving.
oh yeah, and as far as abortion not being an issue - i'm right on the money, baby. ya see, george w. bush is about as pro-life, right wing religious as they come, and did the fact that he resides in the white house prevent any abortions from happening?
but i digress. seriously, you cant honestly be sitting around thinking that Communism is a threat to our country. meanwhile our way of life is being threatened from within by our own government - specifically the george bush administration, while they wave our flag and talk of patriotism.
Last edited by Linson; 05-25-2008 at 11:29 AM..
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but i wont. please read carefully: there is nothing wrong (deceptive) with being a John McCain supporter or with being a hillary clinton supporter; even if you are a woman (or man for that matter) who wants her to be elected simply because she is a woman. i get it. if not her, who; and if not now, when? there have been 43 white male presidents of these United States and 0.0 female presidents - just as there have been 0.0 black men or other racial minorities ever elected president. 
oh my god!
