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Old 05-25-2008, 10:40 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Has anyone ever seen the government save money on any program compared to preivate business. Cost overrun is a common word of governamnt programs and projects. They have run at a loss for years and wasted mney on everyhting they do. Reason has little to do with governamnt spending it is all the good old boy system. My guess is governmant health care will be a disaster;just look at the medicaid systems's problems.
And that is a perfectly rational and legitimate concern.

On the other hand however the fact remains that we simply cannot continue as we have with the present system either. Costs are just getting too high. When employers start wanting to get out of subsidizing health care costs for their employees because it having to severe an effect on the bottom line, you KNOW you have a serious problem. The number of uninsured - or underinsured - Americans is going to grow and grow and grow because of the wildly increasing costs.

Ken
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,010,195 times
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I've found over the past several months that most of what Obama proposes is either a duplicate program (already exists) or is an expansion of an existing program that he would make into a behemoth. Why do people not call him on this?

For instance, his "new $4,000 tax credit for college" already exists!!! In fact, a number of tax credits exist -- the Hope credit, the Lifelong Learning credit, and a standard deduction of $4,000. I've used them, thank you very much, when I was working on my Master's degree and now that my son is at university, too. Moreover, if you cash in savings bonds while having someone in your household at university, the interest paid is tax-exempt.

So, why is Obama acting as if he's inventing something new? If he wants to tweak something that already exists just so he can put his name on it, then he'd be wasting time and money.
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:10 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,154,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
I've found over the past several months that most of what Obama proposes is either a duplicate program (already exists) or is an expansion of an existing program that he would make into a behemoth. Why do people not call him on this?

For instance, his "new $4,000 tax credit for college" already exists!!! In fact, a number of tax credits exist -- the Hope credit, the Lifelong Learning credit, and a standard deduction of $4,000. I've used them, thank you very much, when I was working on my Master's degree and now that my son is at university, too. Moreover, if you cash in savings bonds while having someone in your household at university, the interest paid is tax-exempt.

So, why is Obama acting as if he's inventing something new? If he wants to tweak something that already exists just so he can put his name on it, then he'd be wasting time and money.
It's offered for students who do community service.
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:51 AM
 
607 posts, read 923,011 times
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College is a privilege, not a right. Why should we subsidize something that is supposed to give you higher future earnings potential?
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:55 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,154,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplecow1 View Post
College is a privilege, not a right. Why should we subsidize something that is supposed to give you higher future earnings potential?
(1) who said it was a right? (2) are you saying do away with Pell grants and the G.I. Bill?
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:57 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplecow1 View Post
College is a privilege, not a right. Why should we subsidize something that is supposed to give you higher future earnings potential?
Because an educated population benefits the country as a whole. A large part of America's technological and economic boom after WW II resulted from the GI Bill - whereby millions of Americans who could not otherwise have afforded to do so received college educations - and then went on to help push Ameica into the modern age.

Businesses look for educated people. Especially in this day and age where offshoring is so easy to do, if America's business cannot find enough educated people here, they will simply ship their jobs overseas to where they CAN find them.

Ken
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Old 05-25-2008, 12:09 PM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,171,221 times
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As far as the retirement accounts go...

Someone is going to still have to pay into the SS system because the money paid by our generation and previous generations was never saved -- it was paid out to current retirees. For many of us, that money paid into SS is our retirement plan. 401k's haven't been around that long. Many companies started doing away with pensions 20 years ago.
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Old 05-25-2008, 12:13 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
As far as the retirement accounts go...

Someone is going to still have to pay into the SS system because the money paid by our generation and previous generations was never saved -- it was paid out to current retirees.
Actually the SS system's real problem was that it's resources have been tapped into over the decades for the government's General Fund rather than being held in reserve as it was supposed to be.

Ken
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Old 05-25-2008, 12:17 PM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,171,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Actually the SS system's real problem was that it's resources have been tapped into over the decades for the government's General Fund rather than being held in reserve as it was supposed to be.

Ken
This is true.

When they add what is owed to SS to our National Debt, we owe something like 50 trillion dollars. It's something like 4 times our entire annual GDP.
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Old 05-25-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
This is true.

When they add what is owed to SS to our National Debt, we owe something like 50 trillion dollars. It's something like 4 times our entire annual GDP.
Yup. And the cost of the Iraq War is not included in the National Debt either.

Ken
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