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Old 06-01-2008, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,642 posts, read 15,600,753 times
Reputation: 1680

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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgia dem View Post
Obama did not much of anything to cause any sort of ruffel while he served
in the senate because he had his eye on the WH
how many times did he not vote on an issue?
He has shown repetedly he panders for votes,
but he is also showing he can not stand up for what he believes in,
he has snowed his way this far.
but he will have an eye opener for the general election
there are several of us pissed at how they gave him votes for "uncommited" in MI
another way to steal votes
this is not over
I hope Hillary takes it all the way to Denver
One who does not understand the nature of compromise and it's fruits will always walk away sour. It's over. And 5 million PO'd bitter, Hillary supporters are a drop in the bucket compared to the overall voter turnout in the general. If you can't understand the political process and the art of compromise, how can you lay claim to being part of the Democratic party which is built on these principals? Where is your indignation for the four States that don't submit Popular Vote totals? Do you believe she won those too?


Obama's stance on the War and the timeline has been well documented. What's incredible is that someone so young in his political career, would take such a strong stance vs. the Establishment which virtually ignored the Will of Millions of people. Why didn't they hear their constituents? The discontent was there. This is why the core respect among Senator Obama's fellow legislature's exists on both sides of the isle. You'd have to be an idiot to not even grudgingly respect a guy who had shown this much heart, paid attention and followed through successfully on what the will of the people demanded, in asking for constraint and reflection before action - and his fellows know, they all got it wrong.
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:26 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,153,076 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
And here I go again ...having to straighten out any dolts who confuse liberalism with Fascism. IF you READ the following you will see the connection/similarity with the republicans of today:

[SIZE=4]Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]Laurence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine -- a journal of humanist thought. Mr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is titled 'Fascism Anyone?', by Laurence Britt, and appears in Free
Inquiry's Spring 2003 issue on page 20.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that
human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need". The people tend to 'look the other way' or even approve of torture, summary executions,
assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -- The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived
common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -- Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding,
and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -- The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are
made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by
government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -- Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -- Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public
opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the
government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power,
creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated
entirely or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon
for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the
arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing
to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in
fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to
government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for
national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -- Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or
even the assassination of) opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the
media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[see Fascism Anyone? for complete text of article.]
What?! No one wants to compare ????



Didn't think so.
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: San Antonio North
4,147 posts, read 8,003,007 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
What?! No one wants to compare ????



Didn't think so.
8, 9, and 11.

Are reason enough to ignore this stuff!

Well come on post intelligence please.
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:44 PM
 
451 posts, read 1,228,324 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryneone View Post
8, 9, and 11.

Are reason enough to ignore this stuff!

Well come on post intelligence please.
Lets just dance with 9. Blackwater, Enron, the banks being bailed out of the mess they made.

11. Everytime some smart guy "noam chomski" as a example says something they are ruthlessly attacked and made out to be bad guys and un american which ties into some of the other 14 points.


I'm not even going to entertain 8 for you, because that should be the most obvious.
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:35 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,153,076 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryneone View Post
8, 9, and 11.

Are reason enough to ignore this stuff!

Well come on post intelligence please.

Many times neocons in here have called liberals "fascist" so I thought I'd enlightened them....whatsa matter...didn't like WHO the 14 points REALLY describe??!!!!
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:36 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,159,646 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmonellie View Post
They really go after conservative writers, it's quite sad what has become of that paper.
Im not sure what you mean by "what has become of." The Times never had a conservative slant as we recognize such a thing today. Maybe you mean the WSJ?

Daniel Okrent, the Times's former public editor, is author of a famous 2004 article on this very subject, in which he points out that the NYT tends to reflect a NYC point of view, which is just logically going to be more cosmopolitan and more live-and-let-live than is a necessary accommodation in other parts of the country. In that piece he uses gay marriage as the example topic (hey, it was 2004).

But on the subject of fairness and balanceocitation in campaign coverage, he noted in another piece in the thick of the 2004 contest,
Partisans will see the depredations committed against their man, but won't notice similar articles or headlines or photographs that may damage the other guy.
....
If there's a commissariat at The Times ordering up coverage to help or hurt a specific candidate, it's doing a lousy job; close reading shows bruises administered to each (and free passes handed out) in a pattern adapted from Jackson Pollock. Many people want to know why the other guy's position is in the first paragraph of a story, and their side doesn't weigh in until the sixth; they don't notice when it's the other way around.
And FWI may be W, at the bottom of that same article,
When a reporter receives an e-mail message that says, "I hope your kid gets his head blown off in a Republican war," a limit has been passed. That's what a coward named [he names the guy] wrote to national political correspondent Adam Nagourney several days ago because Nagourney wrote something [the guy] considered (if such a person is capable of consideration) pro-Bush....As nasty as critics on the right can get (plenty nasty), the left seems to be winning the vileness derby this year. Maybe the bloggers who encourage their readers to send this sort of thing to The Times might want to ask them instead to say it in public. I don't think they'd dare.
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,766,887 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losertarian View Post
If obama gets elected, AQ shall be in the USA in force inside of 4 years, then facist liberals will finally get that war they have been trying to avoid for the last 8 years, only this time it shall be on our front doorstep and in our neighborhoods. hope you have your firearms, ammunition and food ready, because it shall be here with the election of obama.
Yeah right. And lizards will fly through our skies and locust with eat our cats! Gawd you cons are a parinoid bunch of folks!
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,766,887 times
Reputation: 3587
The fact is that Obama voiced his opposition to the war- both publicly and in the Illinois State Senate. That fact that he did not have a vote doesn't matter.
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