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Old 10-22-2008, 10:57 AM
 
2,857 posts, read 6,728,388 times
Reputation: 1748

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
He is so capitalist that he only has one socialist idea.
HMMM maybe 2 or 3... or maybe 5 or 6...
Lets see.
1. his tax plan is socialist(redistribution is socialist,)
2. His Fair tax program have Labor and Enviromental standards, this is socialist
3. He wants to raise social security on the rich only, socialist
4. Increase FMLA, socialist
5. More union power giving them Card-check, socialist
6. Paid sick leave mandatory, socialist
7. Play or pay:New business mandate required to buy coverage or pay fee. socialist
8. Universal coverage by 2012, mandate for parents to buy caverage for childrens, socialist
Socialism means collective ownership of means of production. What you have listed above are mostly social programs which is not socialism. All tax plans are redistribution of wealth, but I don't see anyone calling McCain a socialist. The closest thing we have recently done that approaches socialism is the recent nationalization of our financial industry which both candidates supported. Obama did not go as far as to call for nationalization of mortgages like McCain did, so who's the real socialist?
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,817,470 times
Reputation: 24863
We need a political/economic dictionary.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:27 PM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,496,825 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
Socialism means collective ownership of means of production. What you have listed above are mostly social programs which is not socialism. All tax plans are redistribution of wealth, but I don't see anyone calling McCain a socialist. The closest thing we have recently done that approaches socialism is the recent nationalization of our financial industry which both candidates supported. Obama did not go as far as to call for nationalization of mortgages like McCain did, so who's the real socialist?
You cant define socialism with just saying ownership of means of production, Is also redistribution of goods and wealth. Socialism is a little more complicated.
They are social programs and social programs are socialism.
BOTH McCain and Obama have some socialist IDEAS and both have some capitalist IDEAS, the one with more socialist ideas is the more socialist. And right now Obama is winning.
With his socialist "social" programs.
Again, you cant say socialism is just collective ownership that is just a part of it, not the whole picture or the whole meaning.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:34 PM
 
Location: WA
4,242 posts, read 8,779,381 times
Reputation: 2375
"Socialist" is the worst insult the McCain campaign can think of to throw at Obama right now. How lame.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
8,299 posts, read 8,612,226 times
Reputation: 3663
Please read Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations so that you understand the foundational principles of modern economics. The self interest that leads to the generation of capital is also meant to serve the general welfare of society through that capital.

This site is depressing sometimes.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:35 PM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,496,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
"Socialist" is the worst insult the McCain campaign can think of to throw at Obama right now. How lame.
Socialism is not an insult.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:37 PM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,496,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenejen View Post
Please read Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations so that you understand the foundational principles of modern economics. The self interest that leads to the generation of capital is also meant to serve the general welfare of society through that capital.

This site is depressing sometimes.
I dont need more books on economy I already have some.
and you want modern economics from the 1700's?
That is really modern...
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:40 PM
 
Location: WA
4,242 posts, read 8,779,381 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
Socialism is not an insult.
Well, I don't think it is either, but the neocons think it means "HATES JESUS"
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:40 PM
 
6,022 posts, read 7,833,796 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
Republicans have no problem redistributing wealth. Into the pockets of their corporate cronies. But that's not socialism. Socialism is when you go the other way.

Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism.
Hubert H. Humphrey
no republican has challenged this yet huh?
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
8,299 posts, read 8,612,226 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
I dont need more books on economy I already have some.
and you want modern economics from the 1700's?
That is really modern...
Sorry, that post wasn't directed at you, though I mistakenly quoted you I started the post. (I edited that out though.)

But the fact is that Smith's text is still the bible for many modern day economists. And caring for the general welfare is very capitalistic.
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