The Way our goverment works

[jmarquise]

actually, there are states with liberal welfare rules and people have flocked there. that's why there is a HUGE somalian population in maine. I started a thread about it in the immigration forum. I would agree with you on an allowance type deal. my point is that it's difficult to govern from a remote location and we don't live in a one size fits all society. take the example of FEMA. why not allocate the FEMA funds to the states. that way, money given to coastal areas could go to hurricane response, but in the midwest it could go tornado response. in some areas they could have earthquake response, or snow storm response. I will give you a perfect example of how government bureaucracy can get in the way. I applied for a job in raleigh. it's a state job working in wake county. the job is still open and it's been 5 months. I interviewed 4 months ago. I have been contacted by the state and told that they were still evaluating candidates. I interviewed for the city of richmond, VA, yesterday. I was told that the latest I would hear something would be next friday. 1 week. do you know why? it's because the commonwealth of VA has independent cities that don't belong to any county. they don't answer to the state on as much. they are MUCH more efficient.

if you don't like counties, move to louisiana. they have parishes!

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I have mixed emotions on letting the states have their way on many things. I see uniformity as a necessity to prevent dislocations. For instance, if one state had real liberal unemployment, welfare, medicaid rules, etc, then tons of people would flock there. More likely is the case that one state would set very tight rules, forcing out many people who would migrate to less restrictive states, i.e., "beggar thy neighbor" situations. I believe MS already has the worst schools, and if we removed federal oversight/funds to MS, they might even slide further downhill, assuring a populace that is even more illiterate than currently. I'd like to see a uniform set of gun policies and criminal laws so that enforcement and crime prevention is done with ease, not really changed, just uniform so there aren't thousands of sets of gun ownership or case-sentencing guidelines.

One thing that gripes me is that we have 3300+ counties, plus hundreds of cities, and EACH one of these has a full set of bureaucrats, leaders, elections, police, fire and other organizational structures. The 3300+ counties could easily be cut by half, maybe two thirds, saving we taxpayers a fortune in duplication. Every one of these jurisdictions has a bureaucracy to set and collect taxes, etc, and that is just way too much redundancy.

Perhaps the federal role is to fund stuff and measure performance, with real teeth, firing poor performers, etc. Let the Feds set the programs and goals, let the states execute the policies while Feds measure the outcomes.

Not sure what the answer really is, but I'll go to my grave thinking we need a LOT fewer counties and a lot MORE uniformity.

And fire / jail all the lobbyists.

[Mike from back east]

In the FEMA example, there is a federal role. All those National Guard assets are quasi-federal forces and when they come from other states, someone has to play the role of coordinator. There's a lot of disaster response work that crosses state lines, needs a big daddy to run it. My old Army agency in the DC area was a player, we coordinated most of the transport requirements for trucking in the aid, did things like work with the heavy haulers trade group to get their heavy duty flats to haul bulldozers and such (something we also did for military deployments and contingencies).

I believe every state is supposed to have a disaster preparedness apparat, but it needs to feed into a national coordinator. Funds can and have been allocated to the states for these purposes, to include buying gear of all sorts. Here in Colorado, the bus company that hauls old folks from COL SPGS up to the casino's in Cripple Creek used one of these federal grants to put GPS in their buses. Yes, the buses could be used for disaster response, but it sure seemed like a boondoggle to me.

Ain't no easy answers.

[msina]

Maine does not have a liberal welfare dept. The Somali refugees that are in Maine were all sponsered.

There is a 60 month cap on TANF (cash) benefits to ADULT participants, but not on food stamps or MaineCare. After 60 months of aid from TANF, the adult will no longer recieve any cash benefit- the benefit will be awarded only to the minor children, not to the adult. There are some other issues that come in, such as the number of violations the adult commited, as well as a clause that indicates acceptable reasons (Good Cause) that an adult might continue to recieve that benefit (which includes issues such as domestic violence, child care, and a few others..).

If anyone wants to look at the facts... http://www.mejp.org/PDF/tanf_facts.pdf (broken link)

Myth: Maine’s TANF benefits are too generous and encourage people to move to Maine
from other states.
Fact: Maine’s maximum monthly TANF benefit is the very lowest in New England. Maine’s
maximum benefit for a family of three is $485/month, which is only 34% of the poverty level
($1431/month). Even when food stamps are added, TANF families reach only 65% of the
poverty level.
Data from the state’s Department of Health and Human Services clearly illustrates that
people are not moving to Maine for our benefits. DHHS compiled data about the relocation
patterns of people receiving assistance from TANF, Food Stamps and MaineCare. It found:
• Less than 1 percent of all 2006 recipients came to Maine from another state.
• From October 2002 – October 2006, nearly six times as many aid recipients left Maine
each month as the number who moved here.
• Of those who had come from elsewhere, nearly one-third had Social Security numbers
issued in Maine. This suggests that a large number of these individuals were originally
from Maine and were simply coming home.
• Finally, there was no significant difference in migration patterns between aid recipients
and the rest of the population. People receiving assistance generally came to Maine from
the very same states in the same percentages as the rest of the population. If people really
were looking for more generous benefits we'd expect a different pattern - a greater
proportion would be coming from states with lower benefit amounts.
****
Myth: There’s a lot of fraud in the welfare system—people are getting benefits even when
they don’t qualify.Fact: Actual fraud is found in only about 2/10th of 1% of all TANF cases—that means that
99.8% of families do not commit fraud. There are strict eligibility requirements that families
must meet in order to qualify for TANF benefits. Eligibility is reviewed every six months and
families must report any change in circumstances within 10 days. The Department verifies
information about income and assets by computer checks with other government agencies such
as the Department of Labor, bank accounts and access to other public benefits like Social
Security.
Myth: Once on welfare, always on welfare. Lots of families go on welfare and stay on for
years and years.
Fact: Less than 1/10th of 1% of all families who received TANF at the beginning of the program
in 1996 continue to receive it today. The average length of time that Maine families stay on
TANF is 21 months.


If you actually know "many, many, many" people that are living well while on welfare, I would say that you have found all of those 0.20% of people that are committing fraud in order to recieve benefits- and you should turn them in. There is enough stigma attached to the very act of applying (and recieving) welfare benefits, even if you qualify and need it, that I think it's important to weed out the fraudulent ones that only add to that stigma.

I have no idea if refugees have a seperate government benefit for being a refugee (all of my useless knowledge is limited to programs and services managed by DHS, not laws and services related to immigration benefits..), but as for the usual circuit of welfare benefits, they are held to the same rules and conditions as any other applicant- they are not given some golden ticket to abuse welfare benefits for as long as they want to simply because they are immigrants, just as they don't for anyone...
Thank you deerislesmile for the link.

[jmarquise]

the somalians came to atlanta. explain why the hell they would go to an all white, cold area with no jobs? atlanta is diverse, has jobs, and nice weather.

Maine In Africa, Africa In Maine: Somali Influx

Originally Posted by msina

Maine does not have a liberal welfare dept. The Somali refugees that are in Maine were all sponsered.



I have no idea if refugees have a seperate government benefit for being a refugee (all of my useless knowledge is limited to programs and services managed by DHS, not laws and services related to immigration benefits..), but as for the usual circuit of welfare benefits, they are held to the same rules and conditions as any other applicant- they are not given some golden ticket to abuse welfare benefits for as long as they want to simply because they are immigrants, just as they don't for anyone...
Thank you deerislesmile for the link.

[msina]

The Somali's in Maine were all sponsered by private charities and/or churches. They were/are offered assimilation training, and housing was available.

Fed up with life in Atlanta —he was robbed twice — Abdiaziz Ali said members of the Somali community there researched other places on the Internet, comparing crime rates, the cost of housing, test scores. Then they sent scouts to a handful of cities — Kansas City, Mo., Nashville, Tenn., San Diego, Houston and El Paso in Texas, and Portland and Lewiston in Maine.

Somali migration transforms Lewiston (http://www.centralmaine.com/news/stories/020908somalis_.shtml - broken link)

[jmarquise]

ok, I don't want to hijack the thread. I will leave you with the words of the maine government

The Somalian influx into Lewiston has had some positive and negative issues attached to it. One serious negative event occurred in 2002 when the Lewiston mayor Laurier T. Raymond wrote an open letter to the Somali community leaders in Lewiston, asking them to discourage any more Somali immigrants planning on coming to Lewiston. This letter angered many, and Raymond defended his letter by adding that 50% of Lewiston's welfare budget was going to Somalians. This frustrated letter spawned a series of demonstrations, both from Somalian supporters and opposers. It continues to remain controversial today.

Originally Posted by msina

The Somali's in Maine were all sponsered by private charities and/or churches. They were/are offered assimilation training, and housing was available.



Somali migration transforms Lewiston (http://www.centralmaine.com/news/stories/020908somalis_.shtml - broken link)