Coal Industry In Awe Over Obama's Energy Plans (Limbaugh, American, school)

[MovingForward]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

How about getting behind American innovation and ingenuity? We should be developing technologies here to reduce CO2 emissions and other emissions. If we ramp up R/D we decrease the costs for these technologies over timeas well. We also must diversify our energy portfolio to continue to move away from coal, and gradually close to the oldest and most polluting coal plants that are "grandfathered" into the system.

We need to increase subsidies and investments for: wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear, and natural gas.
We should not power the next generation of electric cars through a coal power plant. That would be hypocrisy.

Many states now have a RENEWABLE PORTFOLIO STANDARD. This is a binding agreement that requires states to generate a specific percentage of electricity from renewable energy sources. This is becoming common in many states, and results in a gradual shift away from coal, gas, and oil plants with time. This is also a good way to insulate consumers some from depending on one type of energy source. We are in a global economy now, and commodity prices are very unstable. The more we diversify the portfolio the better off we will be.

In terms of subsidies someone posted a link on a different thread. The percentage of subsidies is highest for the oil, gas, and coal industries. We must increase subsidies for renewable energy companies, support net metering, cogeneration, tax credits, etc. The cost for wind and solar becomes less and less as time passes. The real health and environmental costs of coal plants are not calculated in the cost per KWH to the consumer as well. This in actuality makes renewables cheaper when you factor in the externalities.

THANK you! Yes, eliminate perverse subsidies--absolutely!

The possibilities are so exciting.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

We need to setup systems that take advantage of sea currents. Wind produces little to nothing of what we have now and for it to even come close to 25% it would have to create 25 quadrillion btu's worth of energy. 3.412 btu = 1 watt.

Germany has the correct plan by sponsoring homes to all have solar panels and tie into a grid and the power system is the housing base for Germany. On a smaller scale we could setup cities like that. The US is far to spread out to have a nation wide system.

^
That would be great if we could develop a system like that, but try getting those huge home builders on board We need to have cooperation from all sides to be able to make our homes more efficient.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

^
That would be great if we could develop a system like that, but try getting those huge home builders on board We need to have cooperation from all sides to be able to make our homes more efficient.

people buying homes already complain about the lack of affordable housing. Requiring Geo-thermal heat pumps, solar arrays, and other "green" items like that is NOT going to go over well on the price tag. A few homes that I designed for Boulder county, Colorado had an extra $100,000 added onto the cost because of the strict building requirements within the county. now add that 100,000 on EVERY home built in the nation.

[Swampmonster]

Originally Posted by Frankie117

Obama plan jeopardizes thousands of coal jobs (OneNewsNow.com) (http://onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=308516 - broken link)

He does know that severe taxes on our power companies will make electricity even more expensive for us consumers, right?

So he's going to give us free money, but find other ways to have it taken away, that's classy.

That's pretty funny....He was JUST on the cover of the UMWA monthly magazine that came in the mail this morning "He's Our Man"....I guess they are so stupid they want to give away their jobs.....Get a clue.

[MovingForward]

Originally Posted by Noahma

people buying homes already complain about the lack of affordable housing. Requiring Geo-thermal heat pumps, solar arrays, and other "green" items like that is NOT going to go over well on the price tag. A few homes that I designed for Boulder county, Colorado had an extra $100,000 added onto the cost because of the strict building requirements within the county. now add that 100,000 on EVERY home built in the nation.

Technology moves forward at lightning speed--when well-funded. It can be done. And done spectacularly well.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by kentuckydad95

And it's NO change that will kill this country. You advance in this world or you get passed. Plain and simple.

Tell that to the poor guy that can't afford his energy bills now. I was in the business of selling coal to people and they can't afford their bills now. I run a forum for coal usage in the home and guess what? Traffic is through the roof. Energy is the bedrock that drives the economy. If it goes up so does everything else.

Originally Posted by magellan

Nothing happens "immediately" in this country, especially if it involves legislation.

Under Obama's plan if implemented the cost to the consumer will be immediate. Happy now?

Just because McCain didn't use the word "bankrupt" doesn't mean his idea won't have ramifications on the coal industry:

And again they are two separate plans, Obama's auctions (a tax) off the credits. McCains allocates them. Certainly both will have implications for the coal industry however Obama's is going to be much more expensive for the end consumer.

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Why should we build "new" coal plants when so many polluting coal plants are still "grandfathered" into the system. Many of these old plants are located on top of large metro areas as well. I guess those big electric companies are out to make a sizable profit for their own shareholders at the expense of the long-term interest of the public.

You know what's interesting about Grandfathered plants is that many EPA regulations encourage them not to upgrade at least in the not too distant past. 60 minutes had a piece a year or two back about a coal plant in Florida, they wanted to upgrade the plant to make it more economical which would produce lower emissions and cost less to run. EPA regualtion it was all or nothig upgrade and since they couldn't afford it they didn't do it. Kind of off topic but it just to point out how this all or nothing legislation can go bad.


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Understand something, I'm not against going green but we need to do this slowly and prudently. Until someone can heat my 4000 sq. foot house for the $1500 a year in a cold Northeastern Pennsylvania winter including keeping my hot water hot year round I'm sticking with coal. If I could install solar panels cheaply and had the room I would, the same things with geothermal, wind etc. Thes are all unaffordable for at this point and would be for most people. Geo thermal actually has the best possibilities at this point but still not very good in the type of weather I live. .

These technologies need to mature and become affordable, if you just up and decide we're cutting coal out this country is headed down a long hard road. Obama's plan is like walking a tightrope that you're not even sure is there without a net.

The coal industry and the infrastructure that supports it was not built overnight but instead over the last century. Any new technologies will take decades to implement. If done correctly we can easily accomplish this goal with little problems.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by magellan

No he's not. He's saying that if they want to build a new coal-burning plant, the amount of offsets they'd have to buy would make it basically impossible

Isnt that pretty darn close to being bankrupt by limiting their ability to upgrade their facilities?

Originally Posted by Frankie117

Obama IS asking for coal to be shut down overnight by bankrupting the coal companies.

I think magellan is arguing for the sake of arguing..

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Understand something, I'm not against going green but we need to do this slowly and prudently. Until someone can heat my 4000 sq. foot house for the $1500 a year in a cold Northeastern Pennsylvania winter including keeping my hot water hot year round I'm sticking with coal.

I looked at geothermal which would heat my 6,000 sf home for about $2,000 a year.. the drawback, the $46,000 install price.

[Icy Tea]

Obama doesn't want drilling, he's against coal, and he's against nuclear power. Solar and windmills are great, but they are expensive and can't realistically solve our energy problems. If we want to light our homes and run the air conditioner and the computer 24/7 we need power. The global warming boogeyman isn't going to scare people forever. Maybe you want to walk everywhere while Obama and his friends drive by in stretch limos and sit in the dark while they sip champagne in lighted mansions, but I don't want to.
The rich are being called greedy and unpatriotic for not wanting to pay more taxes, next YOU'LL be called unpatriotic and selfish for not giving up the basics so the world can be a little better.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by MovingForward

Technology moves forward at lightning speed--when well-funded. It can be done. And done spectacularly well.

you do know that solar panels have been used on homes since the 20's, and well.... the tech has not changed much for solar water heat.