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Old 11-17-2008, 02:28 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13715

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
$$ is vital.

Making sure students are a) ready for the opportunities offered and b) supported adequately while in school (emotionally and physically (health) is vital.

If they are not starting with even roughly equivalent resources, then what claims to be equal opportunity is, at best, a farce.
There are a lot of taxpayer funded and volunteer-staffed support programs in place for students in need from pre-K through college-level... Free Lunch/Meal programs, Medicaid, free tutoring, and more, which is good because it's definitely needed.

Just one example of many of the efforts to help those kids... I couldn't afford to take my own kids to the Goodman Theatre to see a live drama performance or to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (tickets are $$$), but would routinely get fund-raiser phone calls asking me for donations so that inner-city kids could do the things my kids couldn't. Kids in need do get a lot of help from many different sources.

Quote:
I do not view the Gates schools as a failure - they are, I hope, a work in progress. There is much to be learned from that experience.
They seem to have the opportunity to learn what doesn't work. That's a start...
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:00 PM
 
Location: in Music Forum w/feeling or Metal
2,051 posts, read 9,336,198 times
Reputation: 5048
I find the issue regarding Obama's voting record on firearms in need of deeper clarification. Labels of liberalism doesn't educate to the issues, and I now no longer trust such labels. Might I suggest for those interested, to read the material from the link posted below, then speak why or why not you think him wrong. Thank you for taking the time to allow my understanding of your view.

Barack Obama on Gun Control
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,521 posts, read 2,350,648 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
I really need to come to grips with the intolerance of the libs and lefties.
You can't be intolerant if you're the party of tolerance. Conservatives like you are the exact reason for this thread. You dismiss everything said by anyone rational or intellectual as "lefty libs" when much of what they say is simply an intellectual decision that is adopted by the left and the libertarian right. This year in the Primaries (I'm a GOP voter), I was appalled by the stupidity of the candidates. Four of them didn't believe in evolution, and to me, that's just a sign of how stupid the GOP has become. When over 40% of the candidates don't understand/believe basic biology, that's a sign that they are the party of ignorance and anti-intellectualism. But you can't call me a lefty (except when talking about my handedness) when I voted for Ron Paul in the Primaries and Bob Barr in the general election.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:45 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 6,479,181 times
Reputation: 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
$$ is vital.

Making sure students are a) ready for the opportunities offered and b) supported adequately while in school (emotionally and physically (health) is vital.

If they are not starting with even roughly equivalent resources, then what claims to be equal opportunity is, at best, a farce.

I do not view the Gates schools as a failure - they are, I hope, a work in progress. There is much to be learned from that experience.

In many districts, people called 'parents' make sure their children are ready to attend school. They provide emotional support and things like breakfast and a bag lunch.
They will have taught their children very basic skills such as listening to adults, taking turns and functioning in a group. Their children will also have been exposed to the very important concept that there are going to be limits on their behavior. They cannot punch their sister or eat only ice cream for supper, even though they would like to do just that.
IMO, this is the single biggest factor that separates failing schools from successful schools. And no amount of money can 'buy' parental interest in their child's education if it is just not there.
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:04 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,641,526 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
In many districts, people called 'parents' make sure their children are ready to attend school. They provide emotional support and things like breakfast and a bag lunch.
They will have taught their children very basic skills such as listening to adults, taking turns and functioning in a group. Their children will also have been exposed to the very important concept that there are going to be limits on their behavior. They cannot punch their sister or eat only ice cream for supper, even though they would like to do just that.
IMO, this is the single biggest factor that separates failing schools from successful schools. And no amount of money can 'buy' parental interest in their child's education if it is just not there.
I have heard of these parents of whom you speak.

It sounds like an interesting concept - and I believe I saw some at one of the schools I was teaching in.

But, in all seriousness, sometimes interest is not enough. Parents can be interested, but need support, themselves, for a host of reasons.

I agree that replacing parents is not going to work, entertaining a notion as that may be.

But I disagree strongly that it is the biggest factor.

Readiness for school is a resource problem, as much as and probably far more than a parental interest factor. And by readiness, I mean both the pre-school aspects and the daily aspects. Food for the mind, food for the body, heat, medicine, sleep... There are many things that get in the way of school readiness that have nothing to do with interest.
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Old 11-17-2008, 05:56 PM
 
Location: in Music Forum w/feeling or Metal
2,051 posts, read 9,336,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
.
Readiness for school is a resource problem, as much as and probably far more than a parental interest factor. And by readiness, I mean both the pre-school aspects and the daily aspects. Food for the mind, food for the body, heat, medicine, sleep... There are many things that get in the way of school readiness that have nothing to do with interest.

A thought has been with me as I've attempted to understand frankly how I could have been persuaded to go against what I thought had been ingrained principals of virtue and the answer within, repeated fear. Which brings me to these children...

Is it possible for one's I.Q. to actually decrease, when functioning in a psychological climate of low-grade fear. Meaning... if a child is always afraid deep down... what effects would that have on the brain's ability to think critically. I was once shocked when visiting a friend and one of the children said... "We're always afraid." They lived in NYC and often stories of violence would be on the news. This was years ago but I remember it still. Any thoughts on this?
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Old 11-17-2008, 05:59 PM
 
Location: The Coldest Place
998 posts, read 1,514,174 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAtMcCain View Post
A thought has been with me as I've attempted to understand frankly how I could have been persuaded to go against what I thought had been ingrained principals of virtue and the answer within, repeated fear. Which brings me to these children...

Is it possible for one's I.Q. to actually decrease, when functioning in a psychological climate of low-grade fear. Meaning... if a child is always afraid deep down... what effects would that have on the brain's ability to think critically. I was once shocked when visiting a friend and one of the children said... "We're always afraid." They lived in NYC and often stories of violence would be on the news. This was years ago but I remember it still. Any thoughts on this?
A bit off topic but - there are fears closer to home that can affect a child's progress, as well. I lived in mortal fear of my stepfather, and was told by him that I would fail at everything. When I didn't, and pointed it out to him, he would find some way to reduce my achievement to an attack on me, and it did affect my education.
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:08 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,641,526 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAtMcCain View Post
Is it possible for one's I.Q. to actually decrease, when functioning in a psychological climate of low-grade fear. Meaning... if a child is always afraid deep down... what effects would that have on the brain's ability to think critically. I was once shocked when visiting a friend and one of the children said... "We're always afraid." They lived in NYC and often stories of violence would be on the news. This was years ago but I remember it still. Any thoughts on this?
This and related issues are very well documented. I might argue that the IQ is no lower, but the performance is - and the only reason that's meaningful is because the performance can bounce back.

Tension and stress and depression and a host of other factors all can and do often reduce performance. To quote a line from Jane Elliott's blue eye/brown eye experiment:

"I couldn't think about the work. All I could think about was that I was a brown-eye."
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Dorchester
2,605 posts, read 4,845,041 times
Reputation: 1090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post

And... I teach hundreds of kids, every year. And I teach teachers and parents as well. I'm really looking forward to my class this coming week on what the election means. I think we'll spend a good chunk of time on the anti-intellectualism of the current Republican party. Should be fun!
Alright jps, you win. And as usual, the students lose.
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:57 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 3,641,526 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomDot View Post
Alright jps, you win. And as usual, the students lose.
*grins*

I do so love listening to people talking through their hats. It has a kind of hollow sound to it.

I think for my next class, we will focus on gullibility and presumption.
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