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You want to quote me, quote me correctly. I didn't say "anti-immigrant." I said anti-minority."
Right-wing boilerplate. If you bring up racism, you're the racist. Spare me.
I know this. But some Americans are more American than other Americans. At least to a lot of Americans.
You got that right.
Again, you misrepresent what I said. I only mentioned rich whites after you did. But there are a whole lot of angry whites out there. Do you dispute this?
I find it fascinating that you have the level of hubris, arrogance and condescension to think that you can assume what I appreciate and what I don't.
1. See above.
2. Don't you EVER insinuate anything about my family.
You are either naive, idiotic or a liar. Which is it? I can tell you many, many stories about how children of other races reacted to me. By the way, I am old enough to remember and have experienced blatant segregation, in the North and in the South.
I don't judge anyone by race or color. I do judge people by how they think about race or color. I don't hate whites. I hate racist whites. I hate racists of all kinds.
My heart bleeds for you. Try being a native-born black person in the South. Again, there is no comparison.
Yes, immigrants who were considered human beings, unlike my ancestors who were thought of as being less valuable than animals. Your lack of knowledge about American history is astonishing.
Actually......it had everything to do with being white. Just because you don't want to believe this doesn't make it true.
Yes. There is not a black person in this country whose family is descended from slaves who hasn't experienced this. It wasn't about minorities fighting each other. It was about legally sanctioned terrorism against black people for hundreds of years. Again, you need to read up on basic American history.
Actually, it makes all the sense in the world. Immigrants who are white have whiteness, and all the advantages that come with it, the minute they step on these shores. It was that way 100 years ago, and it is that way today.
?
Actually - and I did not make these rules - if someone comes here from Spain, they are white Europeans. But if someone comes here from Argentina, Colombia or Mexico, and they are of white European descent, they are part of a minority group (the American creation of Latino or Hispanic). Like I said, I didn't make the rules.
I've seen enough to know what I'm talking about. There is a fear of minorities among a significant swath of white America.
We will always be part of history. By the time you read this, my post will be history because it will have been written in the past.
I don't. Have you been reading?
Your whiteness means absolutely nothing to me. What you write, and believe, and assume, which MAY have been formed at least partially because of your whiteness, well, that means a lot.
Back at ya.
how can some people be more American than others? An American is just that.
Maybe you do not hate whites, but you sure give that impression. You seem to think whites and Republicans are all bigioted and you are not.
I am sure growing up Black in the south was not a good experience and yes, you say racism at it's worse, but many people have been discriminated against just for being poor. I saw this in my husband's family. Discrimination is never right, this goes for all sides period. Hatred isn't right either.
how can some people be more American than others? An American is just that.
We have had different classes of Americans throughout our history - my dad and four uncles fought in WWII in a Jim Crow Army - something I admire them for but could not have done myself. Even after legal Jim Crow has ended, there are still some who will not accept all Americans as the same or as equals.
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Maybe you do not hate whites, but you sure give that impression. You seem to think whites and Republicans are all bigioted and you are not.
How do I give that impression? It is easily documented how the Republican Party, especially since the early 1970s, has fanned up anti-black sentiment for political gain. And I know that the Republicans have a deep strain of bigotry within its ranks. There are so many examples. And do I think I am not bigoted? Of course. I know I am not bigoted.
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I am sure growing up Black in the south was not a good experience and yes, you say racism at it's worse, but many people have been discriminated against just for being poor. I saw this in my husband's family. Discrimination is never right, this goes for all sides period. Hatred isn't right either.
Nita
Was there anything I have posted that would indicate that I don't agree with this?
Truth of the matter is, and its been proven in history, whether immigrants came here Legally or Illegally you folks still had beef with them whether it be Blacks, Asians, even the ones that came from your own very backyard, the Irish, Italians you had beef with them too. How many Japanese americans did you folks send home or put in camps during WWII? those were a few generation japanese/amer citizens.
If the mexicans were'nt the problem, id put $1k bet that you folks will find something or someone to be made the scapegoat no?
The same thing happening over and over again, i think minorities have figured this out themselves too.
Truth of the matter is, and its been proven in history, whether immigrants came here Legally or Illegally you folks still had beef with them whether it be Blacks, Asians, even the ones that came from your own very backyard, the Irish, Italians you had beef with them too. How many Japanese americans did you folks send home or put in camps during WWII? those were a few generation japanese/amer citizens.
If the mexicans were'nt the problem, id put $1k bet that you folks will find something or someone to be made the scapegoat no?
The same thing happening over and over again, i think minorities have figured this out themselves too.
So... there is nothing to this... it's just human nature?
So... there is nothing to this... it's just human nature?
I have a better question for you. Why do you do it?
Arent you people tired of all the wars or conflicts? why do we even teach our kids to be polite citizens in schools when this is what they have to grow upto? Do you not care of the hatred that you sow for your childrens children?
All i see and suspect minorities will be doing is to protray the white man the evil race that ever existed. Does that not bother you?
What ever answer you give, does not really matter, though i can imagine what it will be. Nevertheless, minorities are breeding like minks along with the biggotry they will be more than willing to return. I was always under the notion of "It didnt have to be this way" but im a realist too.
As the song goes "what ever will be, will be" kesera sera
I have a better question for you. Why do you do it?
Do What?
It may be different in other parts of the country... I live in Oakland CA and my city doesn't have a majority of anything... In other words... we are all minorities here... including caucasians.
It may be different in other parts of the country... I live in Oakland CA and my city doesn't have a majority of anything... In other words... we are all minorities here... including caucasians.
Ok, now you lost me, what exactly was your "Food for thought" with regards my posts?
You want to quote me, quote me correctly. I didn't say "anti-immigrant." I said anti-minority."
Ooops, my mistake...anti-minority is what I meant.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Right-wing boilerplate. If you bring up racism, you're the racist. Spare me.
Maybe so but, I'm not right-wing. I don't necessarily think bringing up the topic of racism makes a person racist....it depends on how it's being brought up....how it's being used.
Here's why.......racism by definition is, discrimination or prejudice based on race. Discrimination by definition is, treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit.
Calling someone racist, IMO is a very strong accusation, it's meaning should not be minimized by it's overuse for political gain. If someone is going to accuse another of being racist, then they better know who they're talking about....they should really know the person. It should be someone they actually know so, they have first hand knowledge for believing them to be racist. Labeling a group of people racist though, may be racist in itself, depending upon the group. Obviously a group like the klan, is racist. Republicans, democrats, whites, blacks, etc. you can't just call racist without being racist yourself because, you'd be considering them based on class or category rather than indvidual merit.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
I know this. But some Americans are more American than other Americans. At least to a lot of Americans.
Baloney....as far as citizenship, if you're an American citizen then you have the same rights as any other American citizen. Some people think their s*it don't stink but, it doesn't mean it doesn't. People might think they're more American than others but, again, that doesn't mean they're right.
The only time I've ever heard anything like what you're talking about, is when it was the preaching of some hate group. You can't let people like that bother you....no one pays attention to them....unless they were already racist.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
You got that right.
Nope....sorry another mistake.....it should have read, "even if their skin is the same color as yours".
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Again, you misrepresent what I said. I only mentioned rich whites after you did. But there are a whole lot of angry whites out there. Do you dispute this?
No, you used the term first....I had asked you:
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What is a non-minority American then?.....white?....what?.....you tell me......because what ever they are, that's what you're saying republicans are.
....and you replied:
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Yes, and is it not true that the vast majority of Republicans are white, and that Michael Steele notwithstanding, they express the views and the interests of whites, especially rich whites and, before the Tea Partiers, at least, angry whites? When do you hear Democrats raging about "culture wars" and "taking back our country?"
Are there a whole lot of angry "whites"....sure there are. People don't have to be white to be angry....a lot of people are angry but, the question is, at whom and about what....and that's going to be different from one person to the next.
You seem to only see certain people and not others and you classify them by color....."white". There are people that might think you're any angry Black/Hispanic man because, that's all they focusing on....I wouldn't agree with that though.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
I find it fascinating that you have the level of hubris, arrogance and condescension to think that you can assume what I appreciate and what I don't.
In the context I said that in, it's because you make light of the word racist. This country has come along way and you talk like it hasn't. You make comparisons to the past to make your point and it minimizes the seriousness of what had happened....this was a reply to another poster you made:
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Did John Edwards go around questioning the patriotism or the Americanness of the Republicans? Did he shrilly spout about "taking our country back?" What country is that? The Jim Crow white man's country? Hell, why not bring back slavery while we're at it?
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Originally Posted by Lucario
1. See above.
2. Don't you EVER insinuate anything about my family.
You are either naive, idiotic or a liar. Which is it? I can tell you many, many stories about how children of other races reacted to me. By the way, I am old enough to remember and have experienced blatant segregation, in the North and in the South.[/quote]
Yes, because they were taught that by their family....they didn't think it up on their own. When you're a child, you learn things from those who raise you. You take a bunch of children of all colors (at day care maybe)that are too young to have learned anything about racism yet (2-3 years old maybe) and they'll all play together just fine.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
I don't judge anyone by race or color. I do judge people by how they think about race or color. I don't hate whites. I hate racist whites. I hate racists of all kinds.
OK, then what does this mean:
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But there are a whole lot of angry whites out there. Do you dispute this?
You didn't say angry people....you said angry whites....as though no one else is angry.....you're seeing color
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Originally Posted by Lucario
My heart bleeds for you. Try being a native-born black person in the South. Again, there is no comparison.
What I had described to you about my grandfather from Italy was not about the struggles my family had to go through....that's what you heard me saying and you replied with this:
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I don't want to hear a doggone thing about their struggles.
I was talking about the American dream....he was self-sufficient....there were no entitlements then...nor were there any in Italy. He got no special treatment to get started.....he was just frugal, like so many immigrants are when they first come to this country....they're able to save because they're used to making do with a lot less.
You had asked me about how my father accessed wealth....I told you and you didn't have anything to say about it....I guess you were waiting for me to tell you he got a loan from a bank or something so you could tell me he got it because he was white. He got into business the way people have always done it....they had to make deals with others because, they had to....they couldn't get loans....they didn't even have credit cards much less a credit score....it wasn't about color. When he sold his business, to the Korean family from NY, they did the same thing with him....they paid him back over a ten year period to buy the business from him.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Yes, immigrants who were considered human beings, unlike my ancestors who were thought of as being less valuable than animals. Your lack of knowledge about American history is astonishing.
Who's talking about ancestors....how far back are you going when you say that. I said my grandparents....1900's. I have no idea who your ancestors were....I don't have a crystal ball.....you've told me you have a number of different ethnic backgrounds in you. Were your ancestors in the 1900's thought of as being less valuable than animals? I'll ignore your inability to not jump to conlusions about my knowledge of American history and the insults you seem to need to make while doing it. Tone it down and try having a disussion, not an argument.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Actually......it had everything to do with being white. Just because you don't want to believe this doesn't make it true.
That may have been the case back then but, is it their fault for being born white and coming here then when they did.....should they have felt bad about it?
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Yes. There is not a black person in this country whose family is descended from slaves who hasn't experienced this. It wasn't about minorities fighting each other. It was about legally sanctioned terrorism against black people for hundreds of years. Again, you need to read up on basic American history.
You keep talking about what your ancestors went through hundreds of years ago. I'm not talking about my anestors from hundreds of years ago.....I'm referring from the 1900's when they came here and you're ancestors here in the 1600, 1700, 1800's.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Actually, it makes all the sense in the world. Immigrants who are white have whiteness, and all the advantages that come with it, the minute they step on these shores. It was that way 100 years ago, and it is that way today.
Whiteness and the all advantages that come with it. I don't know what to tell you with a commment like that. That's something only you can change because, it's how you want to think of it and it's not going to change any other way. I could say crap like, what do you want sympathy from everyone....or did any one tell you we have a black president now that white people elected to office but, that won't change how you see things, it will just give you reasons to argue and continue viewing things as you do.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
?
Actually - and I did not make these rules - if someone comes here from Spain, they are white Europeans. But if someone comes here from Argentina, Colombia or Mexico, and they are of white European descent, they are part of a minority group (the American creation of Latino or Hispanic). Like I said, I didn't make the rules.
You said this, isn't this your rule?:
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You can't be white and also be a minority (unless you speak Spanish....).
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Originally Posted by Lucario
I've seen enough to know what I'm talking about. There is a fear of minorities among a significant swath of white America.
No....you're not judging people by color....you've got em figured out all on your own.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
We will always be part of history. By the time you read this, my post will be history because it will have been written in the past.
Yes, but what does that have to do with the way you live life now....nothing unless you want to keep making it. Your ancestors are a part of history, "we" as in you and I are not....we will be but, that doesn't matter today....you can't live your life today based on what happened in history when everyone else has moved on since then.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
I don't. Have you been reading?
Yes, I've been reading and all I keep reading are the generalizations you keep making...."a significant swath of white America"...what is that....or what about what you wrote next:
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Originally Posted by Lucario
Your whiteness means absolutely nothing to me. What you write, and believe, and assume, which MAY have been formed at least partially because of your whiteness, well, that means a lot.
"Which may have been formed because of your whiteness"....I know what you're saying but, maybe what you write, believe and assume may be at least partially because of your blackness, well, that means a lot.
Actually it will be the Republicans in California who will influence the GOP in Arizona by asking that the new law be over-ruled by the courts or justice department. Republicans in heavily Hispanic states can't afford to alienate the Mexican-American vote.
so for the lure of the almighty dollar, we throw our country over a cliff? What a shame.
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