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Personally,i say this as a romanian,i think we are actually a slavic country with a romance language.....many of us look totally different than the rest of latins,Now depends on the zone,in east and north you'll find many slavic origin people ,and in south you'll find thracians origins,People in east have a strong russian accent,so i can say that romania used to be latin,but the influences actually transformed it into a slavic country
The culture of Romania is very diverse. The peasant culture of Romanians, which is the oldest culture in the area, has little elements pointing to its origin in the pagan Slavic culture, instead it points to ancient Balkan cultures of Thracians and Illyrians.
This is in accordance with historical (written), genetical and linguistic evidence that shows that the Romanians descend mostly from Latinized people from proper Balkans (today Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Greece) that migrated north of Danube in waves starting with early middle age. The Romanian vocabulary of Latin origin is almost identical with the one of the Aromanians and the phonetic differences between the two have lead the linguists to establish that the ancestors of the Romanians and Aromanians were a single people before 10th century.
The Slavic influence manifested in two main stages: a first stage during the Slavic migration and immediately after that, in 7-9th century. From that period date the most commonly used words of Slavic origin preserved in Romanian, pointing to a cohabitation between the ancestors of Romanians and the Slavs in an area including territories both from north and south of Danube. The second stage of influence was after the Christianization of the Bulgar empire, between 9-12th centuries, when Slavonic language was imposed as the religious and cultural (used in writting etc) language, quite similar with the way Latin was used in Western Europe. From this period date the main body of words of Slavic origin in Romanian but most of them are archaisms or related only to religion.
Interesting discussion, i like how all the butthurt wannabe latins form my country came here just to yell at everyone we are latins with their fake pride.
Bottom line, we are slavs (around 3 different dna tests showed this, but unfortunately, these tests never made it to the media - guess why), our culture is slavic, our cuisine is slavic, but we speak a romance language (mostly because of the words that got replaced among the years).
Those who consider themselves latins are usually, people of... well.. gypsy inheritage, the reason they really like latin countries.
Another few fun facts actually:
- We celebrate slavic pagan holidays (For example Kupala Night, which is called Drăgaica / Sânzienele here).
- Our language was very altered throughout the years (For example, we had Uliță (Street) now it is Stradă, Obârșie (Origin, now it is origine), and many more, so yea, it's obvious how can some of us understand latin languages)
- Cyrillic was our original alphabet, we switched to latin in 1860.
People here fail to realise that "being latin" was just a political move.
Interesting discussion, i like how all the butthurt wannabe latins form my country came here just to yell at everyone we are latins with their fake pride.
You rather are a butthurt that came here with some agenda, perhaps regarding a specific member. Otherwise I cant get why you make such senseless afirmation: "all the butthurt wannabe latins form my country" when it's not so many users here defending the Latinism of Romanian culture. In fact it's only me who have said some things that may be interpreted as such.
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Bottom line, we are slavs (around 3 different dna tests showed this, but unfortunately, these tests never made it to the media - guess why)
Must be some conspiration.
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our culture is slavic, our cuisine is slavic
Ofcourse there are Slavic elements, but also there are elements of Thracian origin that points to a pre-Slavic cultural background of Romanians. For example, the Călușarii ritual, found almost identical at Romanians and English people - the Morris Dance, a similitude explained by historians by the fact that Roman contingents of Dacian soldiers were stationed in Britain (the Dacian presence in Britain is known from literary sources).
but we speak a romance language (mostly because of the words that got replaced among the years).
That is insane. Is not only the vocabulary (the words) that is of Latin origin, but the Grammar and Syntax. This couldn't be replaced by modern Romanian latinists, as you suggest. In fact, your assertion is mostly false as the basic Romanian vocabulary, which is mostly Latin, dates from antiquity. In 19th century there were some efforts of forced latinisation of some words and, like in all Western countries, a huge amount of words of Greek and Latin origin were introduced in language to define the new terms and domains appeared with the scientific revolution - the neologysms.
So is a blatant and crazy lie what you say, that the Latin character of Romanian language is of recent origin. As any child with basic education from Romania knows this, I strongly doubt you're Romanian.
In fact, it was the other way around, the Latin words were replaced with Slavic words during the long period the proto-Romanians and Slavs lived together on the territory of Romania and the Balkans, that is, between 7th and 10th century, when the last Slavic speaking groups from north of Danube must have been assimilated by the Romanian speakers.
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- Cyrillic was our original alphabet, we switched to latin in 1860.
The Cyrillic alphabet was introduced on the territory of what is today Romania no sooner than 9th century, for the simple reason that in 9th century was created, it didn't exist before. Before, from the time of arrival of the Romans up to the Christianisation of the Bulgar Empire in 864 CE (when the Cyrillic alphabet was created to serve the new religion of Slavs), the Latin alphabet may been used by the ancestors of Romanians and in Dobruja also Greek alphabet may have been used. That in the assumption that there have been any literated proto-Romanians in the period, which I fear it may not have actually happened, they were all savage shepherds.
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People here fail to realise that "being latin" was just a political move.
There is international scientific consensus that Romanian language is a Latin language. Your opinion is a very rare phenomenon, found only at some biased or uneducated people.
Anyway, on the same page, we find this map with the distribution of the R1a (Y-DNA) Haplogroup which is associated with Eurasian peoples, including Slavs:
So apparently Romanians are not so Slavic as you try to paint them.
Personally,i say this as a romanian,i think we are actually a slavic country with a romance language.....many of us look totally different than the rest of latins,Now depends on the zone,in east and north you'll find many slavic origin people ,and in south you'll find thracians origins,People in east have a strong russian accent,so i can say that romania used to be latin,but the influences actually transformed it into a slavic country
And many of you DO look like the rest of Latins. So you'll need a better argument than that. Some of you look Persian (from the Scythian contribution to the gene pool). A few look Caucasic/Georgian, and there are Georgian remnants in the language. Some of you look Greek. Some look more like Albanians/Illyrians, and there are Illyrian aspects to the language.
I think some of what people are confusing with "Slavic" culture is the result of Soviet influence, i.e. being part of the erstwhile "Eastern bloc". Some of it is due to proximity to Bulgaria and Serbia, which doesn't indicate a "Slavic" culture so much as a general Balkan culture (shared in many respects by Greece, which also is non-Slavic).
Romanian culture is neither Slavic nor Latin. It has much in common with Balkan culture, which is how I'd categorize it (I think this was covered much earlier in the thread), plus, it has its own unique features.
Y-DNA breakdown:
7.4% E
5.6% G (high frequency in Georgia, Ossetia and Turkey, & Italian + Tyrolean Alps)
22.2% I (pre-Indo-Euro/Indo-Iranian, Europe's oldest sub-stratum)
5.6% J
20.4% R1a
13% R1b
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 07-02-2015 at 02:01 PM..
They hardly can't be considered a Latin country as they are Orthodox
While the term Latin has had (and as a license is still used sometimes) religious meaning, defining the part of Christianity under the jurisdiction of Rome, or the Roman Catholic world, the common meaning refers to the linguistic family. In past, the Germans were also called Latins with the sense of Catholics (like they were called during crusades) but today nobody would call the Germans Latins without being derrided.
So in the actual sense of the word Latin, Romanians are fully Latin. Not that is something to be proud of (as Golov accused), as the Romans were just thieves and civilisation destroyers and using the language of that historical bunch of thieves, for me at least, is rather something to be ashamed of.
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As to Illyrians, nobody knows how they looked like since they are no more. Just as Dacians, allegedly exterminated by Romans
Romans carried out a program of exterminating the Dacians as a nation, by dispersing them, moving them from their original homeland. But I don't think sopmething similar existed for Illyrians. The Illyrians mostly survived and their language survives as the today Albanian language. Unfortunately, the Dacians have not cultural descendants, neither genetical, the genetical pool of Romanians being dominated by other groups.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
And many of you DO look like the rest of Latins. So you'll need a better argument than that. Some of you look Persian (from the Scythian contribution to the gene pool). A few look Caucasic/Georgian, and there are Georgian remnants in the language. Some of you look Greek. Some look more like Albanians/Illyrians, and there are Illyrian aspects to the language. b
I think Romanians are the most mixed people of Europe. They are the most Asian looking but also there are many other kind of visual types, including northern, blonde etc.
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I think some of what people are confusing with "Slavic" culture is the result of Soviet influence, i.e. being part of the erstwhile "Eastern bloc". Some of it is due to proximity to Bulgaria and Serbia, which doesn't indicate a "Slavic" culture so much as a general Balkan culture (shared in many respects by Greece, which also is non-Slavic).
Here I have to agree with Golov and I know what I'm talking about: much or most of our old folk culture is of Slavic origin, especially in Moldavia. For example, the New Year customs with masks and so on.
While the term Latin has had (and as a license is still used sometimes) religious meaning, defining the part of Christianity under the jurisdiction of Rome, or the Roman Catholic world, the common meaning refers to the linguistic family. In past, the Germans were also called Latins with the sense of Catholics (like they were called during crusades) but today nobody would call the Germans Latins without being derrided.
So in the actual sense of the word Latin, Romanians are fully Latin. Not that is something to be proud of (as Golov accused), as the Romans were just thieves and civilisation destroyers and using the language of that historical bunch of thieves, for me at least, is rather something to be ashamed of.
Romans carried out a program of exterminating the Dacians as a nation, by dispersing them, moving them from their original homeland. But I don't think sopmething similar existed for Illyrians. The Illyrians mostly survived and their language survives as the today Albanian language. Unfortunately, the Dacians have not cultural descendants, neither genetical, the genetical pool of Romanians being dominated by other groups.
I think Romanians are the most mixed people of Europe. They are the most Asian looking but also there are many other kind of visual types, including northern, blonde etc.
Here I have to agree with Golov and I know what I'm talking about: much or most of our old folk culture is of Slavic origin, especially in Moldavia. For example, the New Year customs with masks and so on.
I wouldn't be so quick to label some of Romania's folk culture as Slavic. I would say that both Slavic and Romanian folk culture are derived from early Indo-European/Indo-Iranian roots, hence the similarity.
The jury is still out on whether or not the Dacians left some genetic material behind. There are some studies that say they did (how could they not, really?) I think rather, it's a matter of the fact that the field of genetic studies is still evolving, and gaining more ability to discern between different strains. The Dacians in any case weren't the original inhabitants of Romania; they came with later R1a/R1b immigration into the area. The original inhabitants were of the I Y-DNA Hg. Presumably they survived in ice-age refuges around Romania, as "I" did in Croatia, as well. There's a famous cave in Romania that was found to have very early human remains; I don't know what the result of DNA studies on those has been.
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