Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1) Many Europeans fled religious oppression to America to practice freely, and the immigrants handed down the religiosity to their children
2) Most Europeans felt the religious oppression at home, with all these disputes the didn't want to experience them abroad
3) The connection between the nobility and clergy didn't exist in the 13 colonies
4) Coming from homogenous countries into a heterogeneous country they turned towards religion to feel similarity and collectivity
5) In Europe the church held much government power, in the US the church held only social power and people turned to them, becoming powerful.
6) The church in Europe was the oppressive messenger of the state, in the US the priests were renegade preachers doing good for the community
7) When the welfare state developed in Europe, the government became the sole power for welfare, in the US the church is still the major power for welfare
8) After seeing all these wars of religion and the rise of the Enlightenment, Europeans started to consider the church as main source of war, not benediction
9) As the standards of living rose in Europe, the people didn't think the church as important. When governments started to separate the church from the government, people turned to other things
10) Due to all these reasons, tele-evangelists, firebrand preachers etc are completely unacceptable and considered weirdos and fanatics in Europe, and can't attract new masses of people
...
11) In Europe, people don't just care anymore. We have other things.
1. True, but I would say that most of our immigrants came here for economic reasons.
3. True.
4. True, I have seen this explanation before. For example, in my city's boom years (the late 1800's and early 1900's), about 50+% were foreign-born. The new arrivals from Poland congregated around one Catholic church; the Italians, another; the Swedes, Finns, Norwegians each had their own churches with services in their respective languages. The Church was not just a place to pray, but a place of gathering.
5. True, for the most part.
7. The government is probably the largest social welfare provider in the U.S. (Also, look at countries like Germany, where churches are state-funded and provide much of the welfare). It is true that churches provide a lot of secular services to the public in the U.S., for example running food shelves, drives to collect toys and diapers for poor parents, serving the homeless with soup kitchens and shelters, etc. They generally provide these services whether or not you are a member of the church and whether or not you believe anything they have to say. However, cash transfers, food stamps, health insurance for the poor (Medicaid), etc. is generally provided by the federal and state governments and provisioned at the county level.
A possible reason for the lower adherence rates in Europe might lie in the order-seeking aspect of human nature. Where there is the most "disorder" is also where people are most religious (e.g. Africa); where there is the least "disorder" (Scandinavia), the people tend to be irreligious. Order provides stability, and stability opposes precarity. When one's life is precarious, one looks for stability, and that stability is most often found in God. One trusts in God and views events as fulfilling His permissive will. Furthermore, one looks to the next life, because for perhaps the majority of inhabitants of the world, this one is often a "vale of tears", full of suffering and misery.
Of course, this has to do with popular religion - religion in the domain of society - and not the religion of any one individual.
Inequality in modern societies can also be viewed as a form of disorder. In days long past, inequality was actually a representation of the social order, and I dare say, more accepted. The higher ranks of society held more responsibility; a noble protected his vassals, etc. With the Industrial Revolution things fell apart, and it became possible to accumulate vast amounts of wealthy by your own wit, diligence, and/or guile. The stable foundations of caste were broken.
Actually, I've heard that the presence of blasphemies in a languages is usually a sign of an underlying cultural heritage of religiosity. The English people, for example, have historically been less religious than those of other countries, and the English language has no commonly used blasphemous expressions. You can construct a blasphemy in English, of course, but none are common phrases. Quebec is famous for its blasphemies, and they were very religious right up to the Silent Revolution.
It's an interesting and likely theory, Italy was very religious up to '70s I guess (the referendum for divorce was in 1973 I believe), but nowadays it's not.
On the other hand, USA speaks English as first tongue but it's quite a religious country, although it's worth remembering that its formation is peculiar.
US has a history of religious freedom rather than just Catholic or Church of England based on the dominance of royalty to WWI.WWI after centuries of class system changed Europe like never before. But even then talking to WWII vets they were pretty shocked at now much was left witnessing the officer versus non-officers. Have a old family friend who came to US because of difference he saw when serving in British army versus US soldiers.
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,825 posts, read 5,267,455 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_08
I'm guessing this sort of sentiment is fairly common in your country then? We had a bunch of French exchange students come to our school last year (a Catholic boarding school here in Melbourne), and most of them expressed similar feelings about disbelief in God and yet loving the culture and tradition of the Catholic Church.
If we contrast this with Australia, most people here believe in God yet do not practice religion or affiliate with any specific church. This is becoming more the case with younger people in particular.
We can find everycase. Some people accept or inversely reject the catholic roots of french culture. We do not have to forget that even if our country is now one of the least religious (in the sense of church attendence or belief in 'god'), it has been for long centuries (at least until the revolution) almost a religious dictature... Everything was ruled and centralized under the catholic religion which was hold the actual political power.
For this reasons the political left wing had constructed its ideology against this dominant power, with the goal to 'free' the people.
Now, being openly catholic might continue to be seen as something 'conservative' or 'right wing'. Many people tend to reject the catholicism (even when they were born in that culture) because they associate it with some sort of old-fashionned conservatism that doesn't fit with their 'liberal' views. I do not necessary agree with that. I tend to think actually that the catholic church carries with it a sense of solidarity values, humanism, etc that are not 'right wing' or individualistic views at all.
Last edited by Rozenn; 02-19-2014 at 04:20 PM..
Reason: Orphaned - Response to an edited post
Location: Segovia, central Spain, 1230 m asl, Csb Mediterranean with strong continental influence, 40º43 N
3,094 posts, read 3,578,743 times
Reputation: 1036
Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxmas
With the exception of some the Latin based countries like Italy, Spain, Romania, Portugal, then other random countries like Poland and Greece, our European cousins are very non-religious. Obviously that wasn't always the case. Most of the US(and most European-Americans) is still very religious. Sure, its been on the decline overall, but its still a big thing.
When most of our European ancestors came, they were still very religious and they built churches, many in their native language. There are a lot of Lutheran Churches that were exclusively Norwegian, and now Norway is one of the least religious countries.
So when did religion go on the decline in Europe? Why?
I don't think Spain is more religious than most U.S. nowadays.
Europeans are less religious for a few reasons:
1) European countries all had state religions. Those who strayed from the state religion suffered discrimination and loss of rights as a result. Protestants in Spain or Catholics in England are excellent examples. Europeans suffered through countless struggles and wars that were directly associated with religion: the Inquisition, the Wars of Religion and Jewish pogroms come to mind. In contrast the US never had a state religion, and there has always been a separation between church and state since the start of the nation. As a result America attracted a diverse group of Protestants and Catholics, and became an extremely popular destination for Jews (America in 1776 was the first country where Jews were legally full citizens).
Since religion was affiliated with government, American churches never had the power to oppress other religious groups. This is completely different from Europe, where churches were affiliated or outright controlled the government until relatively recently, and used this power to oppress non-believers and dissenters. In Europe, it is more plausible that the population may commonly think of past oppression when thinking of the church; Americans on the other hand have not experienced oppression through the church as the churches there have had little power to oppress.
2) America has never experienced the great tragedies and destruction of World War I or II. The bloodiest conflict on American soil, the American Civil War, saw in the entire conflict the same number of people killed as single battles fought by the Germans, French, Russians, etc during the First and Second World Wars. Other wars taking place in America such as the War for Independence and the Mexican American War were quick skirmishes by European standards.
While Americans were involved in some of the vast European conflicts, especially World War II, it was for Americans fought on distant continents by soldiers and servicemen. One of the most cited pieces of evidence for the non-existence of a god is the Holocaust: "If there is a god, how do you explain the Holocaust?". For Europeans it was fought not only by soldiers, but by families and children alike, in their home towns and countries. The destruction touched all of them while for many Americans the conflicts were stories to be read in newspapers or told by individual returning soldiers. So all of this senseless murdering, destruction, and tragedy directly questioned the Europeans' faith in a higher power; after all, how could god allow such evil to exist?
3) Government in Europe has effectively displaced the church as the supplier of welfare for the needy in Europe. In the past, the church filled this role. The church was once the only institution which cared for the sick, the blind, and the poor. Of course the populace was obliged to pay taxes to the church in order to maintain these benefits for society. This won the church the loyalty of the people often over their monarchs, and the power of European monarchs was constantly challenged or second to the power of the church. The European monarchs didn't like this, so successive monarchs and leaders centralized secularized their governments over several centuries, and as a result, their governments replaced the church as the supplier of the benefits.
Today, the European populace no longer pays taxes to their churches but to the government to provide these same benefits. In other words, people's loyalties have shifted from the church to the large "welfare-state" type governments, simply because the welfare state is the main provider of welfare for the poor and needy. Europeans simply no longer need to "believe" like they once did. In the US, the government the church is still far more in managing charity and welfare for the poor than in Europe. The government is much less involved than in Europe in maintaining the welfare of the people; instead this is left (and always has been left to) the generosity of private organizations. The greatest of these charity-based private organizations are various churches and synagogues. To sum it up, the European governments provide welfare benefits for their people, while in America church organizations and private groups are more likely to fill this role; thus more people are more likely to be affiliated with church organizations.
Americans first settlers were people of religion escaping Europe religious persecution.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
