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Old 03-08-2018, 04:35 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,298,594 times
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Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Its always about the big bad west isn't it. Invading Ukraine to stop the west. Cheat in Olympics to fight the west. Give Putin's judo buddy a billion of state cash to stand up to the west. Bombing Syrian schools to stop the west. Killing Russians abroad who know the truth to fight the west.

"Russia"'s geopolitical interest is a funny way of putting it. At best, its Putin spending Russia's money to make himself and Russia look important. The only thing his declining state is important for is its UN veto and nukes.

Your rabid anti-Russian sentiment is in clear display. You have the same simpleton, black and white attitude often found in American circles view of the world (and responsible of many geopolitical disasters). The world is complex my dear friend.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DKM View Post
I give Putin a lot of credit for being able to convince people that joining the EU would bring back the 90s.
It probably would bring at least some aspects of the 90s back if you do not join with a strong hand.

Do you think life in the EU is all roses and chocolates?? Before you said it, I'm European and I lived there and go there at least couple of times per year....
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DKM View Post
No country can achieve first world status without having a liberal democracy. Only a few extreme examples of oil rich kingdoms have made it close. For China, Russia etc it will never happen without a competitive accountable government. Sure they can clean up the big cities and even grow the economy but will never catch up to the 1st world. Corruption is one of the results of autocracy, but they are not mutually exclusive. This is exactly what Putin and Xi don't want their people to understand, so you can't blame your average Russian for attacking this concept. its what they are taught...Putin has shown he will literally go to war to prevent this idea from spreading.

....actually do you know that in many academia circles someone is starting to opine that democracy is overrated and inefficient?? It is terrifying and I do not agree at all but....many heavy thinkers are starting to ponder....from academia to policy makers there are many bridges...

Do you think the US have democracy?? The prize for the wrong answer is a bridge in New York....
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:44 PM
 
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I've been studying Russia for a long time and I still have a lot to learn.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DKM View Post
The terms of joining would mean having an accountable government over time.
Accountable government and low corruption??

Please do not make me laugh...my own native country of Italy is an EU founding member.....if anything things are getting worse, corruption wise...Greece, Spain....do you really believe that nonsense??
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
....actually do you know that in many academia circles someone is starting to opine that democracy is overrated and inefficient?? It is terrifying and I do not agree at all but....many heavy thinkers are starting to ponder....
I firmly believe "democracy" American style is not a good thing as we are doing it. What power do people really have? Who really has power? There are generations of people locked in a cycle of poverty here and it's never going to improve. The middle class that kept us so strong is disappearing, the "American dream" is far out of reach for many. I know my daughters will make it but their children? I just don't know.

I largely suspect we will become a 3rd world nation. The extremely wealthy and the desperately poor.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Accountable government and low corruption??

Please do not make me laugh...my own native country of Italy is an EU founding member.....if anything things are getting worse, corruption wise...Greece, Spain....do you really believe that nonsense??
Of course he does.
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Of course he does.
...not to mention the new entrants in the EU from Eastern Europe...I bet that corruption disappeared...
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I firmly believe "democracy" American style is not a good thing as we are doing it. What power do people really have? Who really has power? There are generations of people locked in a cycle of poverty here and it's never going to improve. The middle class that kept us so strong is disappearing, the "American dream" is far out of reach for many. I know my daughters will make it but their children? I just don't know.

I largely suspect we will become a 3rd world nation. The extremely wealthy and the desperately poor.

The 2008 financial crisis was a golden opportunity for even the most simpleton man on the street to see who really rules America, who is behind the curtain...


Our political system is corrupted to the core...frankly I bet is not much better than Putin's Russia on some aspects...
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
The 2008 financial crisis was a golden opportunity for even the most simpleton man on the street to see who really rules America, who is behind the curtain...


Our political system is corrupted to the core...frankly I bet is not much better than Putin's Russia on some aspects...
What's really disgusting is it's actually socially acceptable and LEGAL. Seattles waterfront tunnel was the most expensive option the taxpayers could be asked to pay for and we voted it down. The vote was ignored and the state went ahead with it anyway. Why? The people who own the property on the waterfront are involved in the city and state government and have connections.

That's not corruption? That's enforcing the will of the people?

Don't lie to me.
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