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What a sellout Tsipras is. One has to wonder if Tsipras is just a Trojan horse whose main job is put the Greek populace in a more acceptable frame of mind to accept austerity on the EU terms. He can talk the talk but he sure can't walk the walk. Why go through all this drama , tough talk and referendum vote if in the end you're just going to accept the same terms Angela Merkel been offering all along unless you're a liar and had no intention of following through of what you have been preaching all along. This was the same guy that said he would resign if the people voted yes on the referendum because a yes vote meant Greek voters would be approving austerity plans in perpetuity. When Yanis Varoufakis resigned after the referendum vote things started to look fishy as if they (Tsipras + Varoufakis) had no intention of following the will of the voters in rejecting austerity.
Most amusing to me is that Tsipras is from a wealthy family and Varoufakis' wife is from a very wealthy family. These are the champions of the average guy. LOL
Tsipras' debacle is on par with Barry's economic debacle with ObamaCare. It's too bad people get away with this incompetence.
Almost all European countries (and the US as well, of course) are massively indebted, including Germany. Our whole standard of living is based on debt. Look at the debt world map, usually the lower the standard of living, the lower the debt, and vice versa.
I am also in favor of splitting up Europe, though. To me (a German) the Mediterranean countries are the real European countries, Europe without Greece is not Europe, Europe without Germany is no problem. The South has suffered way too much from the Euro, which the money fascists in Frankfurt and London have allowed to remain too strong for much too long. When they finally did something to weaken the Euro, it was too late. It was attempted econocide on the part of Berlin etc.
There is nothing wrong with the Euro if you know your place in the pecking order. West Virginia doesn't need its own currency. It's leaders are merely smart enough to know that West Virginia is never going to look like Aspen, Colorado.
Greece, with a per capita GDP that is lower than West Virginia, wanted to have the same stuff Germany and The Netherlands have and took on too much debt chasing their fantasy.
Not all Mediterranean countries are the same. Greece is isolated between enemies (basically all their neighbours have some territorial disputes or other kind of trouble with them) and climatically, Greece is more exposed to heat than any European country. Also, they are culturally isolated, having no linguistic or other kind of cultural corespondences with other countries or nations, like there are inside the Romance, Slavic, Germanic etc linguistic families.
These conditions creates an unproductive psycho-socio environment where with all dynamic leadership you can't do much change.
Greece also has spoiled child syndrome. They spent so many years being the West's "pet" because the West feared Russia establishing a foothold in the Balkans. They always got what they wanted by stomping their feet loudly. That's how they got Cyprus into the EU, even though it's in Asia and nobody else wanted it as a member. Likewise with the Cold War they've created with Macedonia which was unnecessary.
Right now, Greece is getting the bill for 35 years of bad behavior.
There is nothing wrong with the Euro if you know your place in the pecking order. West Virginia doesn't need its own currency. It's leaders are merely smart enough to know that West Virginia is never going to look like Aspen, Colorado.
Greece, with a per capita GDP that is lower than West Virginia, wanted to have the same stuff Germany and The Netherlands have and took on too much debt chasing their fantasy.
You don't seem to know how the EU works. The EU has the declared goal to bring about the same conditions across the continent. So the EU is divided into lots of sub-regions based on the need for help. So what happens is that the EU provides billions of Euros to needy countries and regions so those can push certain projects, not seldom expensive infrastructure. The problem is that the EU does not pay 100% of those projects, the regions have to contribute a lot as well. In other words, the EU is offering incentives for countries to get into debt. It has happened here in Portugal as well, lots of stuff like highways was build without there being a real need for them. Now many of those highways are almost empty, some of the construction companies that built them are broke, the country sits on billions of debt etc.
The EU is the problem as it doesn't want to accept that some regions are simply much weaker economically. So they try to force a development on them for which there is no foundation. And why? Because the EU knows that if it accepted a very heterogeneous EU, a common currency would not be sustainable and justifiable in the long run.
The main problem in the half dozen or so trouble countries is public debt, and that has little to do with the way people live. Greece for instance is very different from Germany. Lots of people traditionally have their own homes, unlike in Germany where many rent apartments. it has always been like that, long before Greece joined the EU. The same goes for Portugal. Home ownership is much higher here.
What else do people want that you think only Germans etc. deserve? A car? In southern countries compact cars rule, and they are necessary, not a luxury.
Now, West Virginia is a completely different story. It is just one state of many, it has never been a different country like all those European countries. Within the US there is much more migration and today WV is not doing that bad at all. If I am not mistaken it is even booming because of oil and gas, and it is attractive because of low costs. I would like to live in Morgantown, but certainly not in Aspen. I can only hope Morgantown will never look like Aspen, which would be a shame.
There sure are some people with strange, parasitic attitudes in Greece (and not just there), but what you listed is not really the problem. Tax evasion was and is much more of a problem.
There are too many civil servants, but most of them do work. Like Portugal Greece has a lot of bureaucracy, which in turn requires a lot of civil servants. Many countries fail to simplify their laws and stuff, instead they keep adding and adding so that it becomes one giant mess that can hardly be handled anymore. I observe it here all the time, despite the army of civil servants, they are drowning in paperwork, never-ending lawsuits and crap like that.
The thing is, not just Greece needs some serious reforms, all of Europe does, including Germany and so on, which is also a mess with lots of broke communities, a huge mountain of debt, a shady healthcare system, corruption, lots of working poor, etc.
Nor is electing a dubious government a Greek specialty. Why do you think Merkel was elected? She is utterly incompetent, voted for by masses of little educated, backwards Germans.
There sure are some people with strange, parasitic attitudes in Greece (and not just there), but what you listed is not really the problem. Tax evasion was and is much more of a problem.
There are too many civil servants, but most of them do work. Like Portugal Greece has a lot of bureaucracy, which in turn requires a lot of civil servants. Many countries fail to simplify their laws and stuff, instead they keep adding and adding so that it becomes one giant mess that can hardly be handled anymore. I observe it here all the time, despite the army of civil servants, they are drowning in paperwork, never-ending lawsuits and crap like that.
The thing is, not just Greece needs some serious reforms, all of Europe does, including Germany and so on, which is also a mess with lots of broke communities, a huge mountain of debt, a shady healthcare system, corruption, lots of working poor, etc.
Nor is electing a dubious government a Greek specialty. Why do you think Merkel was elected? She is utterly incompetent, voted for by masses of little educated, backwards Germans.
Agreed. I really hope she doesn't run for the next term. She'd probably get reelected right away.
I see lots of finger pointing at the Greeks as if they are the only variable to this problem. Sure the Greeks are no angels and they did play the system but lets talk about that system.
The problem starts from the top and by these disgusting and sick control freaks that run institutions such as the Federal Reserve which is privately owned by a few super wealthy, IMF and ECB aka the gangster banksters. They have been squeezing the livelihood out of not only Greece but other peoples such here in the USA. Make no mistake, this was all part of a plan. The masses are becoming poorer and poorer while these sick twisted individuals think they can live for ever and have accumulated all the wealth. Yes, I am talking about that 1%, the oligarchy and plutarchy and the massive fraud committing unscrupulous banks! People end up paying by one way or another for their actions. Enough is enough and Greece seems to be the last straw that will break the camel's back.
So, to conclude IMO what the Greeks did to be pointed fingers at is very insignificant when compared to those that I mentioned above! The problem does start from the top and lets not get blinded and side tracked by smaller events.
Last edited by WildWestDude; 07-15-2015 at 09:43 AM..
You don't seem to know how the EU works. The EU has the declared goal to bring about the same conditions across the continent. So the EU is divided into lots of sub-regions based on the need for help. So what happens is that the EU provides billions of Euros to needy countries and regions so those can push certain projects, not seldom expensive infrastructure. The problem is that the EU does not pay 100% of those projects, the regions have to contribute a lot as well. In other words, the EU is offering incentives for countries to get into debt. It has happened here in Portugal as well, lots of stuff like highways was build without there being a real need for them. Now many of those highways are almost empty, some of the construction companies that built them are broke, the country sits on billions of debt etc.
The EU is the problem as it doesn't want to accept that some regions are simply much weaker economically. So they try to force a development on them for which there is no foundation. And why? Because the EU knows that if it accepted a very heterogeneous EU, a common currency would not be sustainable and justifiable in the long run.
The main problem in the half dozen or so trouble countries is public debt, and that has little to do with the way people live. Greece for instance is very different from Germany. Lots of people traditionally have their own homes, unlike in Germany where many rent apartments. it has always been like that, long before Greece joined the EU. The same goes for Portugal. Home ownership is much higher here.
What else do people want that you think only Germans etc. deserve? A car? In southern countries compact cars rule, and they are necessary, not a luxury.
Now, West Virginia is a completely different story. It is just one state of many, it has never been a different country like all those European countries. Within the US there is much more migration and today WV is not doing that bad at all. If I am not mistaken it is even booming because of oil and gas, and it is attractive because of low costs. I would like to live in Morgantown, but certainly not in Aspen. I can only hope Morgantown will never look like Aspen, which would be a shame.
Greece was irresponsible and lived in Shangri La. They owe 360 bil.
Germany is responsible but they owe 5,5 trillion (145% of GDP)? Am I missing something?
Britain - 9,6 trillion in the hole. France 5,7..etc..etc..
????
I don't even wanna mention #1..
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