A Europe without Finland is not that hard to imagine. A Europe without Greece would not feel like Europe at all (Slavs, facts)
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Again, that is history and will still be even if Greece is expelled from EU. Fact is, today Greece is a parasitic state while Finland is a productive one. Can this be explained only with the more advantageous climatic conditions of Finland? I don't think. Greece is surrounded by countries, including some at the same latitude, that are all more productive, less lazy. I think the explanation is that the Greeks became too infatuated for their history and heritage and now they consider that these (the history and heritage) absolve them from duty of working.
That's exactly what their problem is. They actually believe the stuff Lord Byron and the rest of the romanticists conjured up in the 19th century. How long was Aristotle and that gang relevant? 30 years maybe?
Lord Byron and his ilk invented a story because they were looking for some kind of grandiose connection to antiquity for THEMSELVES. They had accomplished such great things that they had convinced themselves that they couldn't be descendants of cave men. They conjured up this great fantasy of all these intellectual Greek noblemen in robes and dreamed the were their descendants.
Greece has NOTHING, ZERO, NADA to do with Western Culture. It doesn't have western values. It doesn't have western respect for the laws. It doesn't have the western dedication to thrift and use of your day in a productive manner.
Greece is Eastern, Mediterranean, Balkan, Ottoman.
Greece has NOTHING, ZERO, NADA to do with Western Culture. It doesn't have western values. It doesn't have western respect for the laws. It doesn't have the western dedication to thrift and use of your day in a productive manner.
Greece is Eastern, Mediterranean, Balkan, Ottoman.
Greece valued what today we call western values, in its most glorious age, the Classic period, 6th to 4th century BCE and no doubt pioneered most of the sciences and higher forms of art. But with the Macedonian conquest of Near East, the influences of those very mixed areas has lead to a more pronounced Orientalisation of Greeks, though the process existed before as well, through the Greek colonies on the coasts of Asia Minor.
And as the today Greeks are, genetically speaking, rather hellenized Microasian populations (over time called, Hitties, Phrygians, Lydians, Lycians etc), than European Greeks (following the depopulation of Greece during Slavic invasions and repopulation with Anatolian people by the Byzantine emperors), no wonder they resemble in character more with the Orientals, than with the Occident peoples.
The Oriental lack of morals and efficiency is explained by historical conditions. The Near East nations, for whom commerce was an important, or the main economic activity (Phoenicians, Jews, Arabs, Persians), as well as the Greeks, developed over centuries an ethos focused more on manipulation, opportunism, speculation than on moral values or better organisation of society and activities.
Last edited by CARPATHIAN; 07-23-2015 at 02:14 AM..
Greece valued what today we call western values, in its most glorious age, the Classic period, 6th to 4th century BCE and no doubt pioneered most of the sciences and higher forms of art. But with the Macedonian conquest of Near East, the influences of those very mixed areas has lead to a more pronounced Orientalisation of Greeks, though the process existed before as well, through the Greek colonies on the coasts of Asia Minor.
Nevertheless, as happened with the Near East nations for whom commerce was an important, or the main economic activity (Phoenicians, Jews, Arabs, Persians), Greeks developed over centuries an ethos focused more on manipulation, opportunism, speculation than on moral values.
Scratch beneath the surface of a Greek and you will find Vlach/Aroumanian heritage from one or both parents more often than not. But being from Romania, you probably know that already. Crete, Sparta and Thessaly have that Italian/Roman influence too. Sometimes I wonder if there is any such thing as a Greek anymore or if it isn't just a bunch of Bulgarians, Macedonians, Turks, Thracians, Albanians and Vlachs who speak the Greek language and belong to the Church of Greece.
Scratch beneath the surface of a Greek and you will find Vlach/Aroumanian heritage from one or more parents more often than not. But being from Romania, you probably know that already. Crete, Sparta and Thessaly have that Italian/Roman influence too. Sometimes I wonder if there is any such thing as a Greek anymore or if it isn't just a bunch of Bulgarians, Macedonians, Turks, Albanians and Vlachs who speak the Greek language and belong to the Church of Greece.
As I said, today Greeks are mostly of Anatolian origin but also the Aromanian, Albanian and other Balkan nations contributed to the present Greek population makeup and many famous "Greek" characters from history were actually of other ethnic origin.
One of the most annoying aspects of Greek behaviour, at least from Romanian point of view, is the way they present the Aromanians, who they claim are Latinised Greeks, contrary to the opinion of all non-Greek history scholars. It is little probable that the Greeks would have adopted the Latin language, considered by them inferior and the Latinized Thracians and Illyrians, about whose existence we have clear historical data (they gave more Roman emperors than the Western Hemisphere, Italy included) have not vanished without trace, as the Greeks like to think.
This false Greek propaganda has some very bad consequence: the Aromanians themselves, a large part of them, now consider themselves Greeks, declare as such and renounce at speaking Aromoanian in favour of Greek, leading to the rapid disappearing of the Aromanian minority from Greece through assimilation.
Last edited by CARPATHIAN; 07-23-2015 at 02:38 AM..
What? That is a joke! NO COUNTRY IN EUROPE CAN BE COMPARED TO THE OLDEST THAT BEING GREEK!
It has existed for millennia
Finland has also existed for millenniums. Its population is even older than Greece (no Indo-Europeans moving in and replacing the older prehistoric population).
Hungary is not a true Uralic country. It's a hodgepodge of many peoples, with their language heavily influenced by all the languages around.
Whatever you say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuomiReader
Finland has also existed for millenniums. Its population is even older than Greece (no Indo-Europeans moving in and replacing the older prehistoric population).
Not true either. Already proto-Germanic, proto-Slavic, proto-Norse and proto-Baltic loan words prove this wrong. Also prehistoric archealogical evidence show that there's been a lot of "foreign" influence and migration. For example agriculture came to Finland with new immigrants.
Finland is certainly not a prehistoric monolith, but have been influenced a lot from abroad, most notably Sweden.
What? That is a joke! NO COUNTRY IN EUROPE CAN BE COMPARED TO THE OLDEST THAT BEING GREEK!
Greece has insignificant impact on Europe in 2015. If you ask people around the world what countries they think about first when hearing the word Europe, i can assure it is not Greece. Grecophiles might be the most arrogant people in Europe, i will give you that.
Well, in all honesty, if you reflect your or mine daily life in our western societies, the ideas and technology we have, in the end most of it comes from a handful of countries, namely the UK, Germany, France, the US, Italy.
If a freeborn man in a city state called Athens was able to vote is completely irrelevant in today's world.
Greece is also a rather new country, gaining independence in 1821.
That's exactly what their problem is. They actually believe the stuff Lord Byron and the rest of the romanticists conjured up in the 19th century. How long was Aristotle and that gang relevant? 30 years maybe?
Lord Byron and his ilk invented a story because they were looking for some kind of grandiose connection to antiquity for THEMSELVES. They had accomplished such great things that they had convinced themselves that they couldn't be descendants of cave men. They conjured up this great fantasy of all these intellectual Greek noblemen in robes and dreamed the were their descendants.
Greece has NOTHING, ZERO, NADA to do with Western Culture. It doesn't have western values. It doesn't have western respect for the laws. It doesn't have the western dedication to thrift and use of your day in a productive manner.
Greece is Eastern, Mediterranean, Balkan, Ottoman.
That's all it is, an invented story.
Many in the sciences will differ. Greece has EVERYTHING to do with western culture. It has western values one can't imagine. It has laws that value a free society. As, if other societies in the west follow the teaching of the ancients to the point. Greece does have values that other thrift societies in the west try to copy. It is not Ottoman and never was, Ottoman ceased to exist if your read history
Last edited by WildWestDude; 07-23-2015 at 08:02 AM..
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