Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Pfff. It is not propaganda or that the West would be after you, but because of the reason that Russia has never been really good in creating any friends.
That is quite difficult, as 10-15 years earlier I was merely a thought in my parents minds.
Excuses, excuses))) We all know that if you would have REALLY wanted it, you'd be born 15 years earlier.
Quote:
But I've heard a lot of stories both from my parents who were on business trips in the USSR/Russia, and also from other people. As Western goods were highly valued but the ruble worthless outside USSR, it was an endless dilemma what you could trade your nylon stockings or pop-LP's for. And as Russians didn't have anything to trade, many went for 'physical services'. But few things were found in abundance: vodka, caviar and tea. My mom smuggled out some ruble notes from the country (it was illegal), and gave them to me as a souvenir, and I still have them left.
Those are just "stories" - not more.
People who wanted to exchange their "nylons or LPs" for rubles, ( because rubles were what they wanted) knew very well why they wanted them. The official exchange dollar to ruble was approximately 1 to 1, but if they ( mostly tourists and business people ) were selling those "nylons and lps" ( or whatever,) they were getting plenty of rubles ( the black market exchange rate was 3 to 1, so some preferred to do just that,) and then nice restaurants with plenty of vodka and caviar were coming dirt cheap for them.
Now "physical services" were not on "every corner" as someone would like to picture it - far away from it. For the most part Russians ( Russian women including) were staying away form foreigners, knowing that KGB ppl were somewhere around the corner, and those who dared to get into this kind of services, were under the KGB surveillance.
Quote:
My dad traveled extensively in Russia right after the fall of the USSR, and told some really interesting stories. You couldn't fly with Aeroflot (too dangerous), you could eat only in designated places, you couldn't drink the water, don't use taxis, and you shouldn't go out at night. Everywhere there was kids with baseball bats demanding 'parking fees' so that your rented car would be intact when you return and so on. The best was though a note on the wall in I think Yekaterinburg airport which said: "Do you have a problem? We'll get rid of him. $1000. Call this number".
Right after the fall of the USSR?
Russia indeed was a VERY dangerous place.
I mean you watch the movie "Brother" ( "Brat") and it gives you pretty good idea what it was all about.
Indeed lack of Western goods was a problem in the USSR. I also heard stories that some girls prositituted themselves for those goods. But I don't think it was the norm. Just foreigners were often approached by a certain type of girls.
You know what I hear Russians are saying sometimes now?
That like indigenous tribes, they've sold what was really valuable in exchange for glass beads ( Western goods) - valuable things like their social security; guaranteed jobs, pensions, free quality education, free medical care and so on.
Quote:
As for the second part of your story, it looks like typical 90's - lawlessness, chaos, high criminality, feeling of danger. But it was after the fall of the USSR. Soviet times were much safer and overall better. Not Stalin's time of course, but 1960's, 70s, early 80s
Of course they were. And for many - probably still are.
(Stalin's times - that's the whole different story of course))))
Of course they were. And for many - probably still are.
But they were unsustainable. That's the whole point. It's why it all collapsed. "You pretend to pay us - we pretend to work".
Sure, I get why some people preferred Big Brother to take care of everything, but that is not the attitude that led to humans evolving.
You cannot guarantee people jobs for life in a sustainable economic system - you're just too nostalgic.
But they were unsustainable. That's the whole point. It's why it all collapsed. "You pretend to pay us - we pretend to work".
Oh no, they were quite sustainable. "Being sustainable" does not necessarily mean channeling money in few pockets in the most efficient way ( as the system is set in the West after all, - that's what practice shows us.) If ( as a society) you put forward different goals, you can be quite sustainable as well; it's true that the majority will not live in private houses - they'll live in small apartments, cars most likely won't be available in private use and so forth, BUT; quality education definitely can be afforded for free, so would be medical care and pensions ( not to mention child care/art.) It all depends what kind of priorities the society strives for. So Soviet system could have been quite sustainable, had those on top decided to be more flexible and allowing private sector along with the one operated by the state. But that's where Russian nomenclature was extremely stubborn, refusing to allow any "exploitation" ( i.e. someone being employed by someone, other by the "state." And without it private sector couldn't exist, leaving a big gap in people's daily needs. So instead of gaining momentum and advancing Stalin's gains, the next generation of rulers preferred to stick to stagnating ways, avoiding necessary reforms and improvements at all cost.
( On another hand I understand sort why they were doing that - the new class of private owners could have posed a threat to their dogmas and routines, however not as much as their stubborn refusal to improve the system. Because that's what brought it to the crashing end after all.)
Quote:
Sure, I get why some people preferred Big Brother to take care of everything, but that is not the attitude that led to humans evolving.
Soviet system WAS indeed part of "humans evolving." The reason you can't recognize it, is because you are looking at it from the point of view of the historic development of your own country; the way it evolved. But Russian society historically was developing very differently, so from RUSSIAN perspective Soviet system was a big improvement, a huge jump from semi-feudal system into industrialized society.
( You might find this particular thread interesting in this respect - some posts in particular
You cannot guarantee people jobs for life in a sustainable economic system - you're just too nostalgic.
Of course you can. Look at the enormous size of the country, density of population - we are not talking about small European countries here)))
Me "being nostalgic" - that's the whole different story.
Although I have to admit, that after a long life in American society, I understood much better (in retrospective) what Russians were doing right, and what were the strong points of their society.
This one probably deserves its own thread because it's "too good to be missed":
Turkey shoots down Russian plane = bye, bye Russian gas to Europe.
Here's what happens:
An year ago when Putin and Erdogan appeared together with the plan to build a gas pipeline from Russia to Turkey I thought this is a joke and Putin's ONLY goal was to outrage the "small, insignificant" country also known as Bulgaria.
Simply because back then Bulgaria refused Russia to build South Stream which would've brought billions to Austria, Italy, Serbia, Bulgaria and of course: Russia. In that speech Putin blamed Bulgaria for its "betrayal" and acted as if he really thinks he's going to work with country like Turkey.
The thing is that even if Bulgaria leaves the EU, Putin still won't be able to build the gas pipeline as other countries wouldn't want it. Putin's only bet is to somehow make not just Bulgaria but also Italy and Austria leave the EU which I've no idea how such thing could happen.
Those are just "stories" - not more.
People who wanted to exchange their "nylons or LPs" for rubles, ( because rubles were what they wanted) knew very well why they wanted them. The official exchange dollar to ruble was approximately 1 to 1, but if they ( mostly tourists and business people ) were selling those "nylons and lps" ( or whatever,) they were getting plenty of rubles ( the black market exchange rate was 3 to 1, so some preferred to do just that,) and then nice restaurants with plenty of vodka and caviar were coming dirt cheap for them.
Now "physical services" were not on "every corner" as someone would like to picture it - far away from it. For the most part Russians ( Russian women including) were staying away form foreigners, knowing that KGB ppl were somewhere around the corner, and those who dared to get into this kind of services, were under the KGB surveillance.
.
So true. There was no fraternizing with foreigners, except for an unwritten rule that you were allowed a 1/2-hour conversation, no more, and no repeat meetings.
RE: dangerous after the crash: must have been mainly Western Russia. Siberia was very placid during that period. And Aeroflot was the only show in town for internal flights, so there was no other choice. Other than the train, as long as you were going somewhere that was on the train line. All those environmentalists, oil and fisheries people, foreign students, etc., flew Aeroflot inside Russia, some did it annually, and they're still alive. So are most Russians who flew Aeroflot, of course. There were a few planes in the first few years that went down due to overloading, but that problem was remedied.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
