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I adid not advocate US leaving NATO. It was in response to a couple of European posters here on CD who wanted US soldiers out of Europe. To them, my response is - if you want them out go ahead and ask them to leave and manage security of Europe yourselves. Don't berate them for staying and at the same time expect them to provide overall security for Europe ( not saying Europeans are not participating but US provides overall nuclear security).
Who did? Viribusunitis, from Austria, not a NATO member, asked with what troops and against whom are the US here to 'protect' Europe. I pointed out, from Finland, not a NATO member, that the US has withdrawn almost all its fighting forces from Europe. There's nobody anymore left to 'protect' Europe.
Europe, and especially the big European NATO countries are already managing the security of Europe by themselves. And naturally non-NATO countries too like Austria and Finland.
Who did? Viribusunitis, from Austria, not a NATO member, asked with what troops and against whom are the US here to 'protect' Europe. I pointed out, from Finland, not a NATO member, that the US has withdrawn almost all its fighting forces from Europe. There's nobody anymore left to 'protect' Europe.
Europe, and especially the big European NATO countries are already managing the security of Europe by themselves. And naturally non-NATO countries too like Austria and Finland.
Norne, for one, did. I assume she has US troops stationed in his / her country.
Austria and Finland do not have any US troops on their soil and hence have no dog in this fight. If you want to know more about who US is troops are protecting, you may have to ask the Germans or the Italians.
I too prefer that the US troops come home and we trim our defense budget a bit.
Norne, for one, did. I assume she has US troops stationed in his / her country.
Austria and Finland do not have any US troops on their soil and hence have no dog in this fight. If you want to know more about who US is troops are protecting, you may have to ask the Germans or the Italians.
I too prefer that the US troops come home and we trim our defense budget a bit.
You are evading. With one Stryker Brigade and one Airborne RCT you can protect one small city. So which city is this, and against whom are they protecting it? So please answer my question.
Were you at all aware of the fact that there is hardly any US troops in Europe these days?
You are evading. With one Stryker Brigade and one Airborne RCT you can protect one small city. So which city is this, and against whom are they protecting it? So please answer my question.
Were you at all aware of the fact that there is hardly any US troops in Europe these days?
50 000 ist not exactly hardly any. That is more than in the entire volatile Middle East combined.
50 000 ist not exactly hardly any. That is more than in the entire volatile Middle East combined.
20k of those 50k are not fighting forces, but medical, logistical, economical and aviation refueling troops, mostly acting as a supply base between America and the Middle East.
30k is hardly any to use as an argument of "protecting" anyone. It's a neligible amount.
20k of those 50k are not fighting forces, but medical, logistical, economical and aviation refueling troops, mostly acting as a supply base between America and the Middle East.
30k is hardly any to use as an argument of "protecting" anyone. It's a neligible amount.
Oh, I never made the argument they are there to protect anyone - except for American interests of course. And I think putting them in Israel - which is, you know, right in the heart of the Middle East and a very pro-American country, instead of Germany (and Italy) would make much more sense.
Oh, I never made the argument they are there to protect anyone - except for American interests of course. And I think putting them in Israel - which is, you know, right in the heart of the Middle East and a very pro-American country, instead of Germany (and Italy) would make much more sense.
No, you did no, but most Americans still think that the US has hundreds of thousands of troops in Europe, while the European nations have "dismantled" their Armed Forces. None of this is true. The argument "the US protects" Europe is just a false smoke-screen used as a reason for keeping the US military budget high and in support of the military-industrial complex.
You are evading. With one Stryker Brigade and one Airborne RCT you can protect one small city. So which city is this, and against whom are they protecting it? So please answer my question.
Were you at all aware of the fact that there is hardly any US troops in Europe these days?
I am not evading and you are unnecessarily argumentative.
I don't care if it is 20K or 50K troops, or if they are fighting forces or support, or Stryker division or Sherman division or any other named one. And I don't know or care which city or country they are protecting.
And if there is hardly any troops in Europe these days, well and good.
All I am saying is that if Europe wants to kick the remaining people out and be free of any American influence let them do it and remove American armed / support presence from European soil. No more talk of American imperialism and overbearing nature. (This is mainly directed at Norne who wanted them out, not you)
I am not evading and you are unnecessarily argumentative.
I don't care if it is 20K or 50K troops, or if they are fighting forces or support, or Stryker division or Sherman division or any other named one. And I don't know or care which city or country they are protecting.
And if there is hardly any troops in Europe these days, well and good.
All I am saying is that if Europe wants to kick the remaining people out and be free of any American influence let them do it and remove American armed / support presence from European soil. No more talk of American imperialism and overbearing nature. (This is mainly directed at Norne who wanted them out, not you)
I am not. Americans just parrot all the time "we are protecting you so shut up" and you yourself did that originally too before you got to know that there aren't hardly any US troops anymore in Europe. I've encountered this a 100 times on C-D.
I think most of the European NATO ALLIES OF THE USA are quite happy having the US as an ally. I am too 100% confident that the US IS HAPPY TO HAVE EUROPE AS AN ALLY. If it was only an one-sided alliance with Europe leeching from the US, I'm quite sure that the United States would've pulled out of NATO decades ago. But it didn't, even after the Cold War. NATO need the US, the US needs NATO. End of story.
To add, France and Britain have enough nuclear warheads to wipe out half of the world. Not the whole, but half. I think that's quite the deterrent, don't you think?
I am not. Americans just parrot all the time "we are protecting you so shut up" and you yourself did that originally too before you got to know that there aren't hardly any US troops anymore in Europe. I've encountered this a 100 times on C-D.
I think most of the European NATO ALLIES OF THE USA are quite happy having the US as an ally. I am too 100% confident that the US IS HAPPY TO HAVE EUROPE AS AN ALLY. If it was only an one-sided alliance with Europe leeching from the US, I'm quite sure that the United States would've pulled out of NATO decades ago. But it didn't, even after the Cold War. NATO need the US, the US needs NATO. End of story.
To add, France and Britain have enough nuclear warheads to wipe out half of the world. Not the whole, but half. I think that's quite the deterrent, don't you think?
To be frank I would not know the exact number of US troops in Europe without googling it. If you had told me 50K or 500K or 2 million I would have believed any or all of them.
But that is not the point. The point is that an European is not happy with US troops being there. So if they do not want them as allies, they have the right to terminate the relationship and kick them out. But keeping them and berating them does not look good. Let them petition their government to kick out both armed and support US personnel out of their country, and we will leave.
As to the warheads Britain has 225 and France has 300. Enough, but has to be used quickly before the 1600 active deployed warheads of the 7700 warheads that Russia has, start raining down on them.
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