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It's impossible for a non-Italian to understand Italian politics, we have problems, let alone someone who can just read newspapers here and there.
As for the topic, generally Italy is a rather conservative country, although disaffection is very widespread.
Overall, it's Northern Italy to hold the biggest political weight: it's richer, more populous and vaster.
The main problem is that Italy is a VERY fragmented country with countless issues and divisions that inflame the political debate and influence the debate (such as the division North-South, autonomous regions, mafia, religion etc).
Beppe Grillo's party has some bizarre, ultra-leftist ideas, yet it is the only Italian party that focuses on politician honesty first and foremost, so that a politician is kicked out of the party as soon as there is even the slightest suspect of misconduct.
This is something never seen before in Italian politics.
And it might be enough to get my vote frankly, since so many politicians of the other parties are just creepy crooks.
Indeed, it is the same for me as well.
Although my approval for M5S has some reserves as well.
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Originally Posted by J.Thomas
Guelphs and Ghibellines man
And yes Sergio Mattarella is from Sicily
His brother was killed by mafia.
Ironically his father was deeply implicated with Mafia.
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Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo
Sounds a lot like the United States to me.
Well, I don't really know the US politics that well (aside from world news) but I can assure you that Italian politics are very fragmented and difficult to understand.
Wouldn't vote for that party... Ok, agree with anti-establishment, it is Italy after all.
Environmentalism and E-Democracy (if done right which they don't) are good points for me. It seems to me as they have dropped the degrowth teories and have focused more on implementing more welfare state policies (one of their main points is guaranteeing a basic income to every Italian citizen and quite possibly yo anyone living on Italian soil). They also aren't as Euroskeptical as they first used to be and have refrained from even talking about UE recently.
The problem is that there is a split inside the party between a moderate left wing majority (led by Di Maio) and a minority which seriously believes in the most unbelievable conspiracies and which is hard to classify (led by Carlo Sibilia). It's the latter half of the party which is the bat**** insane half which keeps voters away.
By the way, some of their ideas are good, the problem is their questionable internal democratic methods. They have just announced that they will sue anyone who will change party after being elected and that they will fine €150k. I know trasparence is needed but that's taking it too far!
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Originally Posted by manbury
Beppe Grillo's party has some bizarre, ultra-leftist ideas, yet it is the only Italian party that focuses on politician honesty first and foremost, so that a politician is kicked out of the party as soon as there is even the slightest suspect of misconduct.
This is something never seen before in Italian politics.
And it might be enough to get my vote frankly, since so many politicians of the other parties are just creepy crooks.
Grillo himself is no different than other. He's also a creepy crook and a man who was implicated for tax evasion. I wouldn't trust him to run the country, the furthest he and Casaleggio from the Movement the better.
^ quite many parties there in the parliamentary election.
Several of those parties have either been absorbed into others or are regional. The main ones are 5SM (far left wing), SEL (left wing), PD (center-left), NCD/Scelta Civica (center), Forza Italia (center-right), FdI (right), Lega Nord (far-right)
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Originally Posted by forgotten username
Well, the city I live in has a tradition of being very left-wing. It is the city in which was founded the very first university in the whole world, and during the 70s it was kind of the center of Italian counter-culture. There are dozens of Social Centers all around the city, some of which are related to the ex- Communist party who has become the current PD (Renzi's party - center left).
Traditionally Emilia Romagna also had the so-called Emilian model, successful small industry with a nice welfare system, during the 60's-90's it was one of the wealthiest regions in Europe, let alone Italy. Now it is still good but obviously the system is partly dysfunctional. Most older people here always vote for the PD, it is kinda considered like the voice of reason, and the same people do not understand that younger people would not want to follow the party's instructions, because obviously younger left-wing people like me are not very excited by the PD in general, even if there is much worse.
Rome and Lazio in general are considered to be pretty right wing, borderline fascist. Fascists actually parade there from time to time, whereas here it is very limited.
I would say politics are very important in Italy in every day life, although they are also very hard to understand for a foreigner.
Young people aren't happy because quite a few of them feel like PD is becoming a center party since Renzi got elected into office. As for Rome, it's a pretty polarized city, the far right enjoys a strong presence there, Casapound got its first politician elected there and it's been the center of black terrorism in the 70s and 80s (right wing terrorism). Its former major, Alemanno, was actually part of one of those organizations and so was the head of the Mafia Capitale organization who got dismantled last year
Grillo himself is no different than other. He's also a creepy crook and a man who was implicated for tax evasion. I wouldn't trust him to run the country, the furthest he and Casaleggio from the Movement the better.
But even if he was a crook, which he is not, who cares? The important thing is that his M5S is not meant to be a party of crooks, since they kick out anyone at the slightest hint of immorality, while the other parties protect their politicians even when they are indicted of crimes.
But even if he was a crook, which he is not, who cares? The important thing is that his M5S is not meant to be a party of crooks, since they kick out anyone at the slightest hint of immorality, while the other parties protect their politicians even when they are indicted of crimes.
I'm not against M5S but there's something about the way they do politics and they treat anyone against the core that isn't inspiring. For example, they just said they would sue and fine €150k anyone of their candidates at the next municipalities if they were switch allegiance to another party after being elected.
They asked their voters to decide over the matter of civil unions and 85% of them were for it but now that they have the opportunity of making the law pass, they have decided to give freedom to their politicians about the matter when they have never behaved this way.
They could have started the change they wanted to enact the day Bersani asked them to be part of the government but they refused to.
I'm not against M5S but there's something about the way they do politics and they treat anyone against the core that isn't inspiring. For example, they just said they would sue and fine €150k anyone of their candidates at the next municipalities if they were switch allegiance to another party after being elected.
They asked their voters to decide over the matter of civil unions and 85% of them were for it but now that they have the opportunity of making the law pass, they have decided to give freedom to their politicians about the matter when they have never behaved this way.
They could have started the change they wanted to enact the day Bersani asked them to be part of the government but they refused to.
Don't adhere to the movement if you don't want to respect the principles of the movement, simple.
Most, if not all of those describe as 'dissenters', were in fact people infringing the basic rules of the movement and, as such, they were expelled from the movement, what's outrageous in this?
Had a Fascist joined the Communist Party (think like Almirante joining Togliatti), he would have been expelled, so what's the deal?
There have never been so many changes of allegiance since the birth of the Republic, that's the shame not a fine with no legal value whatsoever.
I agree about the civil unions though, albeit I had read that the voters allegedly voted only about civil unions and not about adoptions.
I'm also fed up with all the rigmarole about these civil unions, Jesus Christ, enough when the whole worldwide banking system seems on the verge of collapse (oh Bagnai, how underrated art thou).
As for what Bersani said, there is a video (and his declarations) clearly proving he had no intention to form a government with the Movement (and he could have offered something more than his word) and, even assuming he wanted to:
a) The Movement had a clear and explicit idea NOT to get entangled within the mess of alliances
b) Bersani wanted to be Presidente del Consiglio without even having the numbers to indisputably claim the role like he actually did
c) They openly wanted a 'governo tecnico' to do the reforms with a Parliament approving or rejecting them
Don't adhere to the movement if you don't want to respect the principles of the movement, simple.
Most, if not all of those describe as 'dissenters', were in fact people infringing the basic rules of the movement and, as such, they were expelled from the movement, what's outrageous in this?
Had a Fascist joined the Communist Party (think like Almirante joining Togliatti), he would have been expelled, so what's the deal?
There have never been so many changes of allegiance since the birth of the Republic, that's the shame not a fine with no legal value whatsoever.
I agree about the civil unions though, albeit I had read that the voters allegedly voted only about civil unions and not about adoptions.
I'm also fed up with all the rigmarole about these civil unions, Jesus Christ, enough when the whole worldwide banking system seems on the verge of collapse (oh Bagnai, how underrated art thou).
As for what Bersani said, there is a video (and his declarations) clearly proving he had no intention to form a government with the Movement (and he could have offered something more than his word) and, even assuming he wanted to:
a) The Movement had a clear and explicit idea NOT to get entangled within the mess of alliances
b) Bersani wanted to be Presidente del Consiglio without even having the numbers to indisputably claim the role like he actually did
c) They openly wanted a 'governo tecnico' to do the reforms with a Parliament approving or rejecting them
What if you adhere to the movement but then they fail your expectations and prefer to change political stance? It's almost happened before with Pizzarotti which is a valuable politician.
I also want this ****show about civil unions and stepchild adoptions (which are going to affect so few people) to end. I thought Bersani wanted to form a government with M5S but that he wanted to find a middle ground which they didn't want to agree with. They had the chance to push for a few changes already and to prove their worth further and it's right that Bersani wanted to stay as PM because his coalition got the most votes (although it was a narrow win)
“It was a beautiful gift to Italy to have prevented same-sex couples from having a child, as nature prevents that,” Italy’s interior minister, Angelino Alfano, said in a televised comment on Thursday. “We prevented a revolution that is against nature and anthropology.”
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