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Be careful with Black and White. You are using a Russian idiom that has nothing to do with races and skin colors.... Here this idiom is not understood, they will think it has something to do with racism.
I don't know who "they" you are talking about, since I never encountered such problem.
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I am saying that these girls were repeat offends.
Who told you so?
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They have been arrested before multiple times.
Please bring the specific cases when they were "arrested" and for what exactly, so that it wouldn't be hear-say.
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This is where only they think they are performing a song. To the rest of the people that see them, they are the idiot who is screaming obscenities into the crowd.
1.They are clearly performing a song ( whether one might like it or not is a different story,)
2. This is definitely a political act, and that's why Putin personally gets involved
3. They came to the church when service was not on and there were no particular crowds around.
Creating a disturbance. So here is a charge of Disturbance. 4rth offense.
Yes, it was the "disorderly conduct" and normally such "crimes" in Russia are punishable by 15 days in jail. But since it was clearly the political action as you can judge by their lyrics, they received two years and Putin personally approved the verdict.
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So basically this: + being a repeat offender who is giving no indication that they will stop committing crimes. Disturbing the Peace - FindLaw
So how much prison time they would get in US?
Number one - you still need to prove that this band was a "repeat offender," number two their actions don't even generally fall under the definition described in the article provided by you, i.e.
"Fighting or challenging someone to fight in a public place
Using offensive words in a public place likely to incite violence
Shouting in a public place intending to incite violence or unlawful activity Bullying a student on or near school grounds
Knocking loudly on hotel doors of sleeping guests with the purpose of annoying them
Holding an unlawful public assembly
Shouting profanities out of a car window in front of a person's home over an extended period of time
Allowing excessive dog barking in a residential area, and
Intentionally playing loud music during the night that continues, even after a fair warning.
- See more at: Disturbing the Peace - FindLaw"
and when it comes to the US - here is the punishment for it;
"Disturbing the peace is a misdemeanor criminal offense. A person charged with disturbing the peace may face jail time of up to 90 days, fines up to $400, or both. In many instances, disturbing the peace is a first criminal offense and, if so, a person may avoid jail time altogether if convicted. - See more at: Disturbing the Peace - FindLaw"
So as you can see, nowhere close to 2 years in jail that these girls got, since as I've already said it was a political action.
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Can they be convicted of "Hate Crime" under US laws?
Singing a song is not a "hate crime" in any civilized society, but in Russia it can be presented as "hate crime" - yes.
I don't know who "they" you are talking about, since I never encountered such problem.
Who told you so?
Please bring the specific cases when they were "arrested" and for what exactly, so that it wouldn't be hear-say.
1.They are clearly performing a song ( whether one might like it or not is a different story,)
2. This is definitely a political act, and that's why Putin personally gets involved
3. They came to the church when service was not on and there were no particular crowds around.
Yes, it was the "disorderly conduct" and normally such "crimes" in Russia are punishable by 15 days in jail. But since it was clearly the political action as you can judge by their lyrics, they received two years and Putin personally approved the verdict.
Number one - you still need to prove that this band was a "repeat offender," number two their actions don't even generally fall under the definition described in the article provided by you, i.e.
"Fighting or challenging someone to fight in a public place
Using offensive words in a public place likely to incite violence
Shouting in a public place intending to incite violence or unlawful activity Bullying a student on or near school grounds
Knocking loudly on hotel doors of sleeping guests with the purpose of annoying them
Holding an unlawful public assembly
Shouting profanities out of a car window in front of a person's home over an extended period of time
Allowing excessive dog barking in a residential area, and
Intentionally playing loud music during the night that continues, even after a fair warning.
- See more at: Disturbing the Peace - FindLaw"
and when it comes to the US - here is the punishment for it;
"Disturbing the peace is a misdemeanor criminal offense. A person charged with disturbing the peace may face jail time of up to 90 days, fines up to $400, or both. In many instances, disturbing the peace is a first criminal offense and, if so, a person may avoid jail time altogether if convicted. - See more at: Disturbing the Peace - FindLaw"
So as you can see, nowhere close to 2 years in jail that these girls got, since as I've already said it was a political action.
Singing a song is not a "hate crime" in any civilized society, but in Russia it can be presented as "hate crime" - yes.
Lol,
1. When I was reading about this on CNN. it said that they were arrested 3 times before for illegal performances.
2. I do not need to provide proof to you, you are not a judge and I am not a prosecutor. But that was what CNN put online and it caught my eye to me that was a major fact. I am sure you use google to find out more.
3. The maximum sentence you are reading is for first offense, which is a fine for people with no prior criminal history. In their case they are considered a repeat or habitual offender. Performing the same crime multiple times here in US. The judge will rule to make that not a possibility for 5th offense to happen.
4. You do understand that people came there to pray and not to listen to them. No-one in Russia cares what they have to say. Their performance was recorded on video and made international. sensation.
Now wiki has an article.
a series of Levada Center polls showed that, of 1600 Russians surveyed in 45 cities nationwide, 42% also believed ***** Riot had been arrested for insulting the shrines and beliefs of the Orthodox Church. Meanwhile, 29% saw it as a case of general hooliganism, while only 19% saw it as a political protest against Putin. Overall opinion was for the most part negative or indifferent. Only 6% sympathised with ***** Riot, while 41% felt antipathy towards them. 44% believed the trial was "fair and impartial", while 17% believed it was not.[159] Of those following the case, 86% favored some form of punishment, ranging from prison to forced labor or fines, while 5% said they should not have been punished at all. A prison sentence of 2 to 7 years was seen as appropriate by 33%, whereas 43% saw two or more years as excessive, and a further 15% said the defendants should not have been prosecuted in court.[18][19]
That would be a charge of disorderly conduct in many states, which in Florida can carry a punishment of up to one year in jail.
I doubt most prople, except the sludges if society, would support people doing this in the US.
I find it hard to understand why anyone would support a bunch of Marxist delinquents.
A hate crime charge could be levied because the band specifically targeted the church due to its religion.
Arguing over two years is reaching. Many people are in jail for longer that have done less, like drug possession for example. If the band did not want to do the time, they should have not done the crime.
1. When I was reading about this on CNN. it said that they were arrested 3 times before for illegal performances.
I couldn't find such information anywhere, that's why I asked you to provide the link to it. this old CNN article doesn't say anything about it, however it says THIS, which I find very telling of the whole situation;
"The Orthodox leader Patriarch Kyril has been widely reported as saying Putin's years in power have been a miracle from God."
2. I do not need to provide proof to you, you are not a judge and I am not a prosecutor. But that was what CNN put online and it caught my eye to me that was a major fact. I am sure you use google to find out more.
This has got nothing to do with "prosecution" - this is done on forums for your statements to have some weight and substantiation. Otherwise anyone can say anything, making stuff up.
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3. The maximum sentence you are reading is for first offense, which is a fine for people with no prior criminal history. In their case they are considered a repeat or habitual offender.
Again - you need to prove it, otherwise these are empty words and accusations.
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4. You do understand that people came there to pray and not to listen to them.
As you can see in the video, they came when the church was still mostly empty.
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No-one in Russia cares what they have to say.
Says who? You?
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Their performance was recorded on video and made international. sensation.
It was and for a good reason.
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Now wiki has an article.
a series of Levada Center polls showed that, of 1600 Russians surveyed in 45 cities nationwide, 42% also believed ***** Riot had been arrested for insulting the shrines and beliefs of the Orthodox Church. Meanwhile, 29% saw it as a case of general hooliganism, while only 19% saw it as a political protest against Putin. Overall opinion was for the most part negative or indifferent. Only 6% sympathised with ***** Riot, while 41% felt antipathy towards them. 44% believed the trial was "fair and impartial", while 17% believed it was not.[159] Of those following the case, 86% favored some form of punishment, ranging from prison to forced labor or fines, while 5% said they should not have been punished at all. A prison sentence of 2 to 7 years was seen as appropriate by 33%, whereas 43% saw two or more years as excessive, and a further 15% said the defendants should not have been prosecuted in court.[18][19]
So? Are you trying to say that since only 19% of the surveyed considered it a political action, it's not a political action?
Of course it's a political action, even if many Russians prefer to believe that it's not, as their government lets them to believe.
Besides, Russia doesn't really have free civil society, so these polls are mostly skewed.
That would be a charge of disorderly conduct in many states, which in Florida can carry a punishment of up to one year in jail.
I doubt most prople, except the sludges if society, would support people doing this in the US.
I find it hard to understand why anyone would support a bunch of Marxist delinquents.
A hate crime charge could be levied because the band specifically targeted the church due to its religion.
Arguing over two years is reaching. Many people are in jail for longer that have done less, like drug possession for example. If the band did not want to do the time, they should have not done the crime.
It didn't quite do that.
"Patriarch Gundyaev ( aka Kirill) believes in Putin - *****, he'd better believe in God instead" - these are the key words in the whole "prayer."
With other words, they targeted the church due to its corruption, not religion.
I couldn't find such information anywhere, that's why I asked you to provide the link to it. this old CNN article doesn't say anything about it, however it says THIS, which I find very telling of the whole situation;
"The Orthodox leader Patriarch Kyril has been widely reported as saying Putin's years in power have been a miracle from God."
This has got nothing to do with "prosecution" - this is done on forums for your statements to have some weight and substantiation. Otherwise anyone can say anything, making stuff up.
Again - you need to prove it, otherwise these are empty words and accusations.
As you can see in the video, they came when the church was still mostly empty.
Says who? You?
It was and for a good reason.
So? Are you trying to say that since only 19% of the surveyed considered it a political action, it's not a political action?
Of course it's a political action, even if many Russians prefer to believe that it's not, as their government lets them to believe.
Besides, Russia doesn't really have free civil society, so these polls are mostly skewed.
What I am telling you is backed up with a Wikipedia relating to opinion of average Russians. 42% thought it was a hate crime against the church and hooliganism is only 30%.
What do I need to prove ? In US repeat offenders get harsher sentences ? It's common knowledge.
Is desecrating a church considered a protest against one's government ? We say that US is a free country and a pillar of global democracy. Is that an acceptable for us way to protest ?
Maybe they were trying to protest. But in US we do not practice these types of protests.... I do not see this as a protests I see this as disturbance which is a crime.
They went to prison because they committed a crime.
What that Russian Priest was saying, that he approves the job Putin is doing. Putin's involvement is due to media attention.
The political aspect of this, I think it's a different conversation. I will give you a hint, in attacking Putin, what type of government are you envisioning for Russia? In Russia Putin has a high approval rating. We have seen color revolutions in Ukraine. You do understand that Russia has the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world? I mean where are you going ?
"Patriarch Gundyaev ( aka Kirill) believes in Putin - *****, he'd better believe in God instead" - these are the key words in the whole "prayer."
With other words, they targeted the church due to its corruption, not religion.
I am not some-one who is Christian, but I believe and support religious freedom.
So why did they not go to Vatican based on your logic ?
What I am telling you is backed up with a Wikipedia relating to opinion of average Russians. 42% thought it was a hate crime against the church and hooliganism is only 30%.
And why are you doing that? With what purpose? To prove that the "opinions of average Russians" are correct? Knowing the general situation in the country, these opinions are not necessarily correct.
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What do I need to prove ? In US repeat offenders get harsher sentences ? It's common knowledge.
Is desecrating a church considered a protest against one's government ? We say that US is a free country and a pillar of global democracy. Is that an acceptable for us way to protest ?
What "repeat offenders? And what "desecrating church?" You use the same trick Putin's propaganda is widely using - that is substituting the meaning of one event/occurrence with the other, or grossly exaggerating it and ascribing it a different meaning. Church desecration means "to divert from a sacred to a profane use or purpose." This is not what happened in this particular case. The band didn't come to church with a purpose of "profane use." It came there to point at the corruption of this very church. And that's why they were prosecuted.
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Maybe they were trying to protest. But in US we do not practice these types of protests....
Because in the US there are other venues to address the corruption - be that corruption of church or government. In Russia there are no such venues - these venues are not in working order, and that's why the protest takes this particular form.
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I do not see this as a protests I see this as disturbance which is a crime.
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They went to prison because they committed a crime.
This is correct - the legal venues for functional protest in Russia are practically non-existent and spontaneous attempts are immediately announced as "disturbance" and "crime." And that's how Putin's Russia operates.
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What that Russian Priest was saying, that he approves the job Putin is doing.
Kirill is not a "priest" - he is a patriarch of all Russia, and being from clergy -it's none of his business to get involved in politics and to approve ( or disapprove) the politicians. As long as it's not a theocracy, but a secular state, that Russia supposedly is.
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The political aspect of this, I think it's a different conversation. I will give you a hint, in attacking Putin, what type of government are you envisioning for Russia?
Ideally, it should be a government preoccupied with Russian national interests first and utmost; the kind that doesn't pass the interests of their own pockets for the national interests of the country, as Putin and Co does.
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In Russia Putin has a high approval rating. We have seen color revolutions in Ukraine.
Putin's high approval rating is based on the miserable experience of Russians back in the nineties - that's the key to understanding of his "popularity."
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You do understand that Russia has the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world? I mean where are you going ?
I am not going anywhere, but the world I believe is sliding closer and closer to war.
I am not some-one who is Christian, but I believe and support religious freedom.
So why did they not go to Vatican based on your logic ?
What "based on my logic?"
Vatican - that's Catholic Church; why should they go to protest to Italy, when they live in Russia, under Orthodox Church?
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