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Just an aside, this 'conversation' reminded me of my first trip to Paris. About 15 years ago now. Having all my life been prepared for the cuisine, I couldn't wait to 'eat' my way through my stay... Croissants, of course, any bread or pastry really, sauces... all the meals I had drooled over from Julia Child's cooking...and my most memorable was a sidewalk cafe where I had the most delicious Vietnamese dish...along with my French (of course) wine.
Yum, Vietnamese food is awesome. I just had some a couple of days ago, in fact! But not in France - I had mine in Longview, Texas of all places. It would have probably been more fun to eat it in France.
In an earlier post, I noted that some of the best Italian food I ever ate was in Germany. I mean it, that was some amazing food.
Some of the best Thai food I've ever eaten was in Houston, Texas and some of the best Korean food I've ever had was in Virginia of all places. Weird how those meals stick in your memory, huh?
I was being facetious but I guess it's too much to expect you to acknowledge or understand that. It was just an example I used, that's all. I'm not writing a dissertation on Turkish cuisine.
Look, you made a simple mistake. You referred to shawarma - an Arab dish native the the Levant - as an example of Turkish food. You don't have to write an essay - you just have to write 'döner', and you would have succeeded in your goal of making a snarky, reductive generalisation of Turkish food but without providing quite such an iridescent example of your ignorance.
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So now Europe doesn't have an immigration problem. Wow, that's nice to know! And here I was thinking that over 1 million refugees have flooded Europe in 2015 and 2016. Silly me.
From these figures, it doesn't sound like 'Europe has an immigration problem'. 1m people is 0.25% of the EU's population. Being a refugee is certainly a problem if you are the one fleeing war, but a population increase of that magnitude does not sound like a big problem to me for the peninsular as a whole.
Your rhetoric is just the same as that which was used in relation to eastern European Jews in the first half of the 20th Century. It was that sort of rhetoric of low-level intolerance that helped usher in fascism. Shame on you.
My friends want to go this year, but I'm personally not in favor of it. They seem to be xeonphopic now, despite the masses of Europeans I see in my own country But I guess the ones in my country are the rich ones, and the pissed off ones are back in their own countries... I've been to Europe before and it was just OK. I prefer the caribbean, latin america, Asia and even North Africa.
Part of it is because I'm not a Euro-phile, and I honestly have seen enough Europeans, but also because they are having serious hatred over there for immigrants. What if they think I'm some immigrant and try to do bad stuff to me? Ugh not on vacation... So yes, rethinking going to Europe because of the reported issues.
Look, you made a simple mistake. You referred to shawarma - an Arab dish native the the Levant - as an example of Turkish food. You don't have to write an essay - you just have to write 'döner', and you would have succeeded in your goal of making a snarky, reductive generalisation of Turkish food but without providing quite such an iridescent example of your ignorance.
Shawarma - Is origin Levant indeed there is no simple mistake. Main ingredients meat wise Lamb,chicken, Turkey, beef, veal, carabeef, or mixed meats are placed on a Spit. Mostly served as a sandwich or a wrap. But mostly eat with tabbouleh,fatuosh, taboon read with tomato and cucumber.
Similar dishes in Mediterranean Basin Turkish donor kebabs and Greeks gyros.
....Part of it is because I'm not a Euro-phile, and I honestly have seen enough Europeans, but also because they are having serious hatred over there for immigrants. What if they think I'm some immigrant and try to do bad stuff to me? Ugh not on vacation... So yes, rethinking going to Europe because of the reported issues.
Sounds like the U.S. would also be a good place to avoid based on that observation.
I have to say, after reading this thread, I do wonder exactly what it is that 'Americans' are being told about Europe, their fear is extreme, they are either all pretty cowardly or their 'news' outlets are flooding them with propaganda. Looking at the way many of them a drooling after that fool Trump I think I know which it is!
So yeah -I'd rather wait for things to settle down a bit "across the pond," before I go back for another European vacation. This doesn't mean "the terrorists have won," or that "I'm afraid I'm going to get blown up," or anything that silly. It doesn't mean I hate or hold in disdain Turkish people, or Asian people, or Middle Eastern people. All it means is that 1) I miss the relative peace and individuality of distinct European countries twenty years ago, and 2) I don't have a burning desire to go back to Europe right now, with these issues being more prevalent, and considering the fact that I've seen so much of it already (and for that I'm thankful).
You seem to be 'blaming' this on the immigrants ( or you may not be but that's the impression that comes across) when there are other factors in play
Tourism has expanded in the last 20 years so now places are seeing lots more - e.g. there are now coach loads of Chinese tourists everywhere compared to 20 years ago, the world has become a smaller place.
And the locals are going to cash in and offer cheap made in China souvenirs to the Chinese tourists
Globalisation has also meant places look the same - maybe it's a bit ironic that an American complains about Europe losing it's character when it's the mega corps expanding and putting a McDonalds and Pizza Hut and Coca Cola signs everywhere.
I moved to the US a few years ago and have a huge list of places I want to see - but I do find it a bit depressing that wherever I go in the States it all looks the same, every town has the same stores, the out of town shopping park with it's Macy's and Sears and Target and Home Depot and Walmart and Dollar Store
You've seen so much of Europe already? Really? I could spend years just exploring England ( and I lived there for nearly 50 years! ) never mind the rest of Europe.
As for the original topic, I'm planning a trip to Italy next year with no worries at all.
I have to say, after reading this thread, I do wonder exactly what it is that 'Americans' are being told about Europe, their fear is extreme, they are either all pretty cowardly or their 'news' outlets are flooding them with propaganda. Looking at the way many of them a drooling after that fool Trump I think I know which it is!
It's my prerogative, with my travel dollars, to travel where and when I want and spend money in countries and locations that actually offer something different, culturally.
Demographics don't lie. With birthrates going as they are for native Europeans vs. "migrants," within a couple of generations years there's going to be a vastly different Europe with a culture turning to resemble a Lebanon more than Luxembourg (While you're worrying about "cowards" why don't you read up on how the demographic change in that country turned the "Paris of the Middle East" into "the Middle East of the Middle East" within just a few decades. You so arrogant to think the allure of secular western lifestyle is sustainable and superior? Europe is no USA).
I will not spend money in countries that appear to want to hasten that process. Glad I went to Germany last year before the mess. I wouldn't go back and spend money there so long as they continue to let the trojan flying horses into Europe en masse. It's like that country just cannot help itself throwing Europe into turmoil every few decades.
Look, you made a simple mistake. You referred to shawarma - an Arab dish native the the Levant - as an example of Turkish food. You don't have to write an essay - you just have to write 'döner', and you would have succeeded in your goal of making a snarky, reductive generalisation of Turkish food but without providing quite such an iridescent example of your ignorance.
Doner kebabs and gyros and shawarmas are all the same thing. Don't you know that? In some places like the UK, they are called kebobs. Here we call they gyros. In the Levant they're called shawarma, but they're all the same thing. And every one I've eaten, anywhere, has tasted basically the same no matter what they're called. I don't go to Europe to eat Mediterranean or Middle Eastern food. I can get good Mediterranean and Middle Eastern food right here.
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From these figures, it doesn't sound like 'Europe has an immigration problem'. 1m people is 0.25% of the EU's population. Being a refugee is certainly a problem if you are the one fleeing war, but a population increase of that magnitude does not sound like a big problem to me for the peninsular as a whole.
So now you're saying that the influx of immigrants in Europe isn't a problem. OK, gotcha.
Let me break this down for you. That figure is just from 2015. I million refugees (nearly all from Syria) were processed through Germany in 2015. AND THIS FIGURE DOES NOT INCLUDE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, which according to the Frontex report released yesterday, number nearly 2 million entering Europe illegally in 2015. http://frontex.europa.eu/news/fronte...or-2016-NQuBFv http://frontex.europa.eu/news/
I don't understand why I have to point this out to you, but 3 million people arriving destitute, who do not speak any European languages, many of them simply unable to work, and all arriving in a short period of time - anywhere - is a big problem. Couple this with the fact that they do not share a culture, are not familiar with or particularly accepting of the laws of the land they arrive in, and they are frightened, angry, displaced, distraught, and you've got a bigger problem. These people have been traumatized and are in grave danger of being marginalized wherever they settle. This environment of displacement, poverty and marginalization coupled with the natural inclination to bond with others in a similar situation rather than assimilating within the host country's culture is a breeding ground for decades of dependency at best and radicalization at worst.
That idea may offend you, but I really don't care whether you're offended by it or not.
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Steve Killelea, Executive Chairman of IEP, said: "The significant increase in terrorist activity has meant that its ramifications are being felt more widely throughout the world. What is most striking from our analysis is how the drivers of terrorism differ between more and less developed countries.
"In the West, socio-economic factors such as youth unemployment and drug crime correlate with terrorism. In non-OECD countries, terrorism shows stronger associations with ongoing conflict, corruption and violence.
"Ten of the 11 countries most affected by terrorism also have the highest rates of refugees and internal displacement. This highlights the strong inter-connectedness between the current refugee crisis, terrorism and conflict."
Terrorism is on the rise globally, including in Europe. It's a growing, global problem - and it's growing in leaps and bounds in Europe. Check out this chart of terrorist attacks and foiled attacks (and which groups they emanate from: http://cdn.static-economist.com/site...1_woc544_1.png
Back to the OP's question of whether or not we plan to avoid traveling to Europe due to the increase in terrorist attacks - I'll reiterate my own position.
In 2016 I plan to limit my travel to within the US. In other words, I do not plan to make any international trips. Is this because of the threat of terrorism? Only marginally and that is limited mainly by the hassle of international travel because of the threat of terrorism, not my fear (actually the lack thereof) of an actual act of terrorism.
I also expressed my preference for many aspects of Europe twenty years ago vs the Europe of today. TODAY. Not forever. But currently, I prefer to let things settle down a bit before I travel to Europe - or any place overseas - this year. Now - I only say that because I had no concrete plans to travel internationally this year to start with. If I had already had plans, I would have kept them - I wouldn't change my travel plans in Europe if they were already in place. But since they're not, and since I've been to Europe numerous times already, nyahhhh, I'm just going to sit back and let the dust settle, and do some domestic travel instead.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 04-06-2016 at 08:32 AM..
I have to say, after reading this thread, I do wonder exactly what it is that 'Americans' are being told about Europe, their fear is extreme, they are either all pretty cowardly or their 'news' outlets are flooding them with propaganda. Looking at the way many of them a drooling after that fool Trump I think I know which it is!
I can only speak for myself, but I'll give you a few examples of what I'm reading from news outlets:
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Terrorists are using the migration crisis to enter Europe and plot atrocities across the continent, the European Union’s own border agency has admitted.
In a report which lays bare the concerns about the EU’s porous borders, Frontex conceded that it does not know the true number of migrants who have crossed into the continent and has no way of tracking them.
Frontex said that EU member states had reported a record 1.82 million illegal border crossings last year, six times higher than the previous record set in 2014.
Just for the record, I can't stand that idiot Trump.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 04-06-2016 at 07:48 AM..
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But I guess the ones in my country are the rich ones, and the pissed off ones are back in their own countries... I've been to Europe before and it was just OK. I prefer the caribbean, latin america, Asia and even North Africa. 
