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Incidentally, I think I have a fairly good insight into what sort of traveller you are, because I offered you quite a bit of information concerning your trip to the UK - back at a point when the extent of your narrow-mindedness was not yet so clear to me. If you exercised a similar lack of talent for discovering living culture in the rest of Europe as you did in the UK, then I'm not surprised at the limitedness of your perspectives.
Oh, did we have much of a discussion after my trip a couple of years ago to England? I don't recall that.
(By the way, just a finer point, but just because you TELL someone a lot of stuff doesn't mean that you have LISTENED to them well, or actually acquired much insight into their personality or needs or likes and dislikes. Principles of Marketing 101.)
My goal when visiting England was not to impress you, believe me, though I did appreciate your tips and may have even applied a few of them - it's been awhile, so I don't really recall what your suggestions were. Anyway, I do recall that you wrote a lengthy post full of suggestions and that was a nice gesture on your part, even if you are rescinding it now (which I think is sort of funny, so thanks for the chuckle).
Anyway, I had a marvelous time - loved London but I loved Yorkshire even more. We rented a car. We stayed in a tiny town in the Yorkshire Dales, in a lovely little bed and breakfast. Without exception, the other guests were all from around the UK and we got to know them and their stories over breakfast each morning. I have to admit, those full English breakfasts are pretty impressive - they'll hold you all day.
It's hard for me to really say which was my favorite experience in Yorkshire - maybe it was hiking on the moors, or clambering around on the Brimham Rocks, but I don't know...I really liked the little local pub and the people we met there...it's hard to say. I found out, much to my surprise, that I really like mushy peas!
My favorite part of London was probably the Tower - we stayed there all day, wandering around. But I also really liked St James Park. We lucked up one day there - the weather was amazing and the grass was so thick and green. It felt great to join the thousands of other people there and kick off our shoes and just lay back in the grass and people watch. Cool thing - it was Prince Phillip's birthday or some such faldera that day and there was a big shindig at Buckingham Palace, and it was fun watching the illustrious guests from that party wander by in their top hats and fascinators. I actually fell asleep in that grass, and I wasn't alone - there were bodies laid out everywhere, soaking up the sun!
There's so much to see in London, we barely scratched the surface in the three days we were there, but we had a blast the entire time. We stayed in a hotel in Westminster, which was a very pleasant surprise - the rooms were significantly less expensive than in the City of London, and we had a great view of the Thames and were just a short, pleasant walk to the bus stop, and to Westminster Cathedral and all those surrounding sites.
It was in a pub in London that I discovered the very middle class joys of a Ploughman's Lunch. Nice.
Wow, I had no idea there were so many different types of pudding, by the way.
Our itinerary for London was full to the brim considering we only had three days there. I can assure you, though, that not only did we have a chance to take in some very interesting sights, we also had the chance to experience "living culture," there as well as in Yorkshire and all points in between.
It was a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. I enjoyed myself though and like I said, I plan to go back one day. Don't bother giving me any more tips on what to do when I get there though - I am so into British history and culture that I could probably write out my own itinerary every year for the next twenty years and still not see everything worth seeing there. England, and Europe, are chock full of interesting places and events and happenings. But see - so is the US, and though I am an American, I am ashamed to say that there are some very interesting sights right here that I have been remiss to explore. So for the next few years, I plan to be preoccupied more locally.
Oh, did we have much of a discussion after my trip a couple of years ago to England? I don't recall that.
(By the way, just a finer point, but just because you TELL someone a lot of stuff doesn't mean that you have LISTENED to them well, or actually acquired much insight into their personality or needs or likes and dislikes. Principles of Marketing 101.)
My goal when visiting England was not to impress you, believe me, though I did appreciate your tips and may have even applied a few of them - it's been awhile, so I don't really recall what your suggestions were. Anyway, I do recall that you wrote a lengthy post full of suggestions and that was a nice gesture on your part, even if you are rescinding it now (which I think is sort of funny, so thanks for the chuckle).
Anyway, I had a marvelous time - loved London but I loved Yorkshire even more. We rented a car. We stayed in a tiny town in the Yorkshire Dales, in a lovely little bed and breakfast. Without exception, the other guests were all from around the UK and we got to know them and their stories over breakfast each morning. I have to admit, those full English breakfasts are pretty impressive - they'll hold you all day.
It's hard for me to really say which was my favorite experience in Yorkshire - maybe it was hiking on the moors, or clambering around on the Brimham Rocks, but I don't know...I really liked the little local pub and the people we met there...it's hard to say. I found out, much to my surprise, that I really like mushy peas!
My favorite part of London was probably the Tower - we stayed there all day, wandering around. But I also really liked St James Park. We lucked up one day there - the weather was amazing and the grass was so thick and green. It felt great to join the thousands of other people there and kick off our shoes and just lay back in the grass and people watch. Cool thing - it was Prince Phillip's birthday or some such faldera that day and there was a big shindig at Buckingham Palace, and it was fun watching the illustrious guests from that party wander by in their top hats and fascinators. I actually fell asleep in that grass, and I wasn't alone - there were bodies laid out everywhere, soaking up the sun!
There's so much to see in London, we barely scratched the surface in the three days we were there, but we had a blast the entire time. We stayed in a hotel in Westminster, which was a very pleasant surprise - the rooms were significantly less expensive than in the City of London, and we had a great view of the Thames and were just a short, pleasant walk to the bus stop, and to Westminster Cathedral and all those surrounding sites.
It was in a pub in London that I discovered the very middle class joys of a Ploughman's Lunch. Nice.
Wow, I had no idea there were so many different types of pudding, by the way.
Our itinerary for London was full to the brim considering we only had three days there. I can assure you, though, that not only did we have a chance to take in some very interesting sights, we also had the chance to experience "living culture," there as well as in Yorkshire and all points in between.
It was a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. I enjoyed myself though and like I said, I plan to go back one day. Don't bother giving me any more tips on what to do when I get there though - I am so into British history and culture that I could probably write out my own itinerary every year for the next twenty years and still not see everything worth seeing there. England, and Europe, are chock full of interesting places and events and happenings. But see - so is the US, and though I am an American, I am ashamed to say that there are some very interesting sights right here that I have been remiss to explore. So for the next few years, I plan to be preoccupied more locally.
Cheers!
You seem to be under the impression that regaling me with your stories of Yorkshire B&Bs, the Tower of London, Prince Phillip's birthday and ploughman's lunches, you're showing how much you got into the 'real', meat-and-two-veg of British life. This is more than cute.
I think you'd like Poland, though. Back in the last century, we also had a problem with disreputable followers of the wrong book spoiling our distinct European culture. Poland is one of the main places where we showed them just how important the homogeneity of our culture was to us.
Right - a bit like if, after I visited southern Texas, I had declared that if I'd wanted to experience Mexican culture, I would have gone to Mexico. That would be neither offensive nor historically illiterate - no siree!
You really aren't that familiar with Texas, are you? That's OK - if you ever decide to visit, I'll post a lot of suggestions for you. Even knowing some of the less appealing aspects of your personality. You don't bother me.
Such comments wouldn't offend me - heck, I KNOW we're awash with immigrants from Mexico, at nearly 40 percent of our population here in Texas, and more than that closer to the border. As much as I like San Antonio, for instance, and as much as I appreciate many things about Hispanic influence in Texas, even I get tired of hearing mariachi music after a couple of days in San Antonio. And don't get me started on all the newly painted pink and green houses.
By the way, for someone who's supposedly so xenophobic, I don't know how I manage to survive being a minority here in Texas (let alone my own immediate family, which is more diverse than most school districts). Texas is one of four minority/majority states - where white, non Hispanic folks make up less than 50 percent of the population. I love Texas, love our Tex Mex culture, and love the Hispanic people who have entered into our family via marriage, but I'd be lying through my teeth if I didn't admit that a huge influx of immigrants from another country makes a profound impact - in both positive and negative ways - in a culture. I'm sure the Native Americans can attest to that. Next time you're in Oklahoma, how 'bout you ask some of the fine folks on the reservations there how they feel about immigration.
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As for the money thing - sure, it's fine to decide whether or not you come across as vulgar.
Yeah, I'm OK with it. It's an American thing. I'm an American. This is a US based forum.
Don't worry - I don't talk about money, or give the peace sign, or tell my English hosts that breakfast was "quite good" when I'm in England. I also don't eat with my hand in my lap or give the OK sign (circled finger and thumb) in some European countries.
Now - you can feel free to call south Texas "Little Mexico" if you like and most Texans will probably laugh along with you, or at the very least let the comment pass, because we're pretty laid back about that sort of thing.
But most Brits should probably read this article before traveling to the former colonies. I mean, they probably won't get beat up for committing any of these faux pas, but really, when one is in Rome, one should at least attempt to act Roman. 10 Things That Brits Don
You really aren't that familiar with Texas, are you? That's OK - if you ever decide to visit, I'll post a lot of suggestions for you. Even knowing some of the less appealing aspects of your personality. You don't bother me.
Such comments wouldn't offend me - heck, I KNOW we're awash with immigrants from Mexico, at nearly 40 percent of our population here in Texas, and more than that closer to the border.
Oh dear, do I really have to spell this out to you? Going to Texas and declaring my lack of interest in seeing Mexican culture there there WOULD be offensive to any reasonable person, because those cultures are intimately interwoven into the history and culture of Texas.
The same is true of going to Europe and saying that you're not interested in seeing Turkish or South Asian culture there. It's both several hundred years too late to have any hope of meeting such a preference, and deeply offensive to the millions of people who with ties both to Europe and to those other parts of the world.
Though, if being offensive is your aim, you'll doubtless have further opportunities. Maybe when you get to Warsaw you can loudly declare that if you'd wanted to see a Synagogue, you'd have gone to Jerusalem?
You seem to be under the impression that regaling me with your stories of Yorkshire B&Bs, the Tower of London, Prince Phillip's birthday and ploughman's lunches, you're showing how much you got into the 'real', meat-and-two-veg of British life. This is more than cute.
What are you on about? I could no more get into the "real, meat and two veg of British life" in ten days split between London and Yorkshire than you could get into the "real, BBQ and jalapeno of Texas life" spending three days in Houston and six days in the Hill Country touring San Antonio, Austin, Fredericksburg, Bandera, and floating the river. But I would still encourage you to do all of the above for an overview of Texas life. And I'd find your accounts of your adventures to be very cute, I'm sure. Unless, of course, you were intentionally rude and insulting, which is not outside the realm of possibility.
My goal when I travel is to work in as much local flavor as I can in between sightseeing. But it's a fine balance. Tell you what - next time you come to the US just skip all those big sights and just come on down to some place like Kilgore, Texas and hang out at the local WalMart instead - and then maybe you can wander down to McKays and grab a buffet dinner and sit down and talk with a local oil and gas worker who's been laid off. And then you can do that over and over again for about six months. Then you can say you've experienced the "real, meat and two veg of American life."
Until then, you're just a cute tourist. And I'm not so sure about the cute part.
What are you on about? I could no more get into the "real, meat and two veg of British life" in ten days split between London and Yorkshire than you could get into the "real, BBQ and jalapeno of Texas life" spending three days in Houston and six days in the Hill Country touring San Antonio, Austin, Fredericksburg, Bandera, and floating the river. But I would still encourage you to do all of the above for an overview of Texas life. And I'd find your accounts of your adventures to be very cute, I'm sure. Unless, of course, you were intentionally rude and insulting, which is not outside the realm of possibility.
My goal when I travel is to work in as much local flavor as I can in between sightseeing. But it's a fine balance. Tell you what - next time you come to the US just skip all those big sights and just come on down to some place like Kilgore, Texas and hang out at the local WalMart instead - and then maybe you can wander down to McKays and grab a buffet dinner and sit down and talk with a local oil and gas worker who's been laid off. And then you can do that over and over again for about six months. Then you can say you've experienced the "real, meat and two veg of American life."
Until then, you're just a cute tourist. And I'm not so sure about the cute part.
The difference is that I don't tend to give detailed accounts of my trips to strangers on the internet, and that I don't use my experiences as a tourist as grounds to make sweeping pronouncements about the states of the various nations I visit.
Oh dear, do I really have to spell this out to you? Going to Texas and declaring my lack of interest in seeing Mexican culture there there WOULD be offensive to any reasonable person, because those cultures are intimately interwoven into the history and culture of Texas.
The same is true of going to Europe and saying that you're not interested in seeing Turkish or South Asian culture there. It's both several hundred years too late to have any hope of meeting such a preference, and deeply offensive to the millions of people who with ties both to Europe and to those other parts of the world.
Please don't presume that you know what would be and what wouldn't be offensive to a Texan. Clearly you don't get it.
I stand by my assertion that I'm pretty darn uninterested in going to Europe to experience Bangladeshi culture. If I want to experience that, I'll go to Bangladesh. Though I have to admit, I had a pretty fine curry in Pateley Bridge one evening. I mean, it wasn't any better than the ones I can get here (also served by people who apparently are from the Bangladesh area), but it was quite tasty.
I mainly went to that restaurant for two reasons: 1) I was a bit uninspired by the local offerings of meat and two veg, and 2) I wanted to be able to say, "Hey, let's go get a curry." We don't really use that phrase over here.
I'm NOT traveling to Germany to experience Turkish culture. When I go to Germany, I want to see the Alps, I want to drink German beer, I want to go on a Volksmarch and listen to an oompa band afterwards. When I go to England, I want to wander along the coast and think of pirates, I want to stand before the tombs of Liz I and Bloody Mary and think how poignant it is that they're buried together, I want to eat mushy peas and and say "Oh, bloody hell!" and feel a bit wicked.
And get this - when I go to Southeast Asia, I don't want to seek out venues that focus on colonization, and I don't want to go hang out with American soldiers on leave - I want to explore Asian cultural sights, foods, music, people, etc.
I can assure you that the last thing I would do in Bangladesh is ask someone to bring me a cup of Earl Gray Tea. That may be someone's idea of fun but not mine.
The difference is that I don't tend to give detailed accounts of my trips to strangers on the internet, and that I don't use my experiences as a tourist as grounds to make sweeping pronouncements about the states of the various nations I visit.
Oh, so now your umbrage is due at least in part to me sharing details of my trips to Europe - in a forum about Europe, in a thread about traveling to Europe? And "sweeping pronouncements" is a bit over the top, wouldn't you say? What "sweeping announcements" are you specifically offended by?
I think you'd like Poland, though. Back in the last century, we also had a problem with disreputable followers of the wrong book spoiling our distinct European culture. Poland is one of the main places where we showed them just how important the homogeneity of our culture was to us.
Tsk, tsk, this is a bit rude.
If you must know, though I seriously doubt that you're actually interested, my husband and I are very (quite, in fact) interested in WW2 history, and the last tour we did of the European mainland was focused around WW2 history.
(In case you were wondering, our relatives supported the "right" side of that war, and in fact my uncle was a POW in a German POW camp for nearly a year. And yeah - we think Hitler was a pretty horrible person and if there's a hell, he's probably burning in it as we speak. But I digress.)
Anyway, we're interested in the history of Warsaw and the famous uprising there, and we'll definitely pay our respects there and in Auschwitz as well, just as we did when we visited Dachau, which was pretty sobering.
My husband wouldn't have made the cut in the Third Reich, but personally I find him to be charming and enigmatic. Third Reich be damned! BLOODY HELL!
Please don't presume that you know what would be and what wouldn't be offensive to a Texan. Clearly you don't get it.
I stand by my assertion that I'm pretty darn uninterested in going to Europe to experience Bangladeshi culture. If I want to experience that, I'll go to Bangladesh. Though I have to admit, I had a pretty fine curry in Pateley Bridge one evening. I mean, it wasn't any better than the ones I can get here (also served by people who apparently are from the Bangladesh area), but it was quite tasty.
I mainly went to that restaurant for two reasons: 1) I was a bit uninspired by the local offerings of meat and two veg, and 2) I wanted to be able to say, "Hey, let's go get a curry." We don't really use that phrase over here.
I'm NOT traveling to Germany to experience Turkish culture. When I go to Germany, I want to see the Alps, I want to drink German beer, I want to go on a Volksmarch and listen to an oompa band afterwards. When I go to England, I want to wander along the coast and think of pirates, I want to stand before the tombs of Liz I and Bloody Mary and think how poignant it is that they're buried together, I want to eat mushy peas and and say "Oh, bloody hell!" and feel a bit wicked.
And get this - when I go to Southeast Asia, I don't want to seek out venues that focus on colonization, and I don't want to go hang out with American soldiers on leave - I want to explore Asian cultural sights, foods, music, people, etc.
I can assure you that the last thing I would do in Bangladesh is ask someone to bring me a cup of Earl Gray Tea. That may be someone's idea of fun but not mine.
OK, I get it, you want the full cliche. But if I were a Texan of Mexican heritage, I would be offended by anyone saying they were 'not interested' in seeing Mexican culture in Texas - and you certainly don't get to be the arbiter of this.
Likewise, declaring that you are 'not interested' in seeing Turkish culture in Germany or South Asian culture in the UK certainly is offensive to people with links to those cultures.
Edit: as for sweeping pronouncements, what about this one:
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Our last two trips back, we realized just how homogeneous so much of European culture has become over the past two decades. I'm not saying that Europe has lost its charm - but I am saying that its charm has faded, unfortunately.
I'm curious - what was the duration of those last two trips, and what terrain did they cover?
Last edited by George & Bill; 04-05-2016 at 02:38 PM..
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