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OK, I get it, you want the full cliche. But if I were a Texan of Mexican heritage, I would be offended by anyone saying they were 'not interested' in seeing Mexican culture in Texas - and you certainly don't get to be the arbiter of this.
Likewise, declaring that you are 'not interested' in seeing Turkish culture in Germany or South Asian culture in the UK certainly is offensive to people with links to those cultures.
It's not my goal to offend others but it's also not my goal to slink through life without the slightest danger of offending every Tom, Dick or Harry - or George and/or Bill. And apparently that's not your goal either, since you've tried so hard to offend me (kudos for your efforts - however, I am not easily offended so you haven't accomplished that obvious goal).
You're full of righteous indignation because I don't care to seek out Turkish culture in Germany. I find this strange. Tell you what - next time you're in Texas on a short, whirlwind holiday, why don't you skip out on the rodeo and go spend a day in the Korean market just off Harry Hines Boulevard instead? Or better yet, don't go visit the Arts District in Fort Worth and instead, spend the afternoon in Oak Cliff hanging out in the hood.
Then we can compare how we both prioritize our limited vacation time and what we deem as making the A list when we visit someplace for a few days. I'm pretty sure you won't be overly concerned about offending the sizable population of Koreans in Dallas, or the African American gang members in Oak Cliff when you are deciding what to see and what not to see during your (hopefully) short visit to the Lone Star State.
I do encourage you though to try the Tex Mex food. It's the food of the Aztec gods.
It's not my goal to offend others but it's also not my goal to slink through life without the slightest danger of offending every Tom, Dick or Harry - or George and/or Bill. And apparently that's not your goal either, since you've tried so hard to offend me (kudos for your efforts - however, I am not easily offended so you haven't accomplished that obvious goal).
You're full of righteous indignation because I don't care to seek out Turkish culture in Germany. I find this strange. Tell you what - next time you're in Texas on a short, whirlwind holiday, why don't you skip out on the rodeo and go spend a day in the Korean market just off Harry Hines Boulevard instead? Or better yet, don't go visit the Arts District in Fort Worth and instead, spend the afternoon in Oak Cliff hanging out in the hood.
Then we can compare how we both prioritize our limited vacation time and what we deem as making the A list when we visit someplace for a few days. I'm pretty sure you won't be overly concerned about offending the sizable population of Koreans in Dallas, or the African American gang members in Oak Cliff when you are deciding what to see and what not to see during your (hopefully) short visit to the Lone Star State.
I do encourage you though to try the Tex Mex food. It's the food of the Aztec gods.
There would be nothing offensive about me not putting such things on my itinerary. But I think it would be offensive to publicly declare my lack of interest in them.
If I've spoken offensively towards you, it's because I find you objectionable - you're like one of those lawn-sprayers, but which has been filled up with ignorance.
I'm curious - what was the duration of those last two trips, and what terrain did they cover?
OK, I'll take your bait, but only because I'm bored. I'm sure my European vacations won't meet your standards, but I had a blast personally and since I was the one paying for it, that's really all that matters to me.
But anyway - please recall that prior to my various European vacations over the years, I did live in Germany for three years and of course traveled pretty extensively through Europe over those years. In fact, nearly every place we went to during that trip was a return trip to places we were already familiar with. It had been about fifteen years since we'd been back to Germany (this wasn't our first trip back after we left twenty years earlier). Oh, and another important point is that this particular trip was a graduation gift to our son and his best friend, who had never been to Europe and who loves history. He is also Jewish. So we wanted to be sure he got to see a lot of historical and cultural sights along the way.
The last two trips I took were each about two weeks long. The first was what we call our WW2 Tour. We flew into Belgium, rented a car, stayed with friends a day or two, and took in Brussels, Ghent, and various battlefields and monuments and museums in the Ardennes.
We meandered along then through Luxembourg and the Alsace Lorraine region of France. Then we drove on along to Freiberg, Lake Constance (aka as Bodensee) and then into Garmisch-Partenkirchen, where we stayed a few days, visited the Zugspitze, wandered around Garmisch, etc. We spent most of our time in the southern portion of Germany - the Alps, Neuschwanstein, Munich, Dachau, Nurmberg, Wurzburg, Rothenburg, Berchtesgaden, the Eagles Nest, etc. We also made a day trip into Austria - Salzburg and the Salt Mines. We flew out of Frankfurt.
Along the way, we enjoyed a mixture of big city centers as well as small towns and villages. We did some touristy things, and we also made time for drives along the rivers of upper Franconia, climbing over castle ruins, etc. We stayed in B & Bs, with friends, in ancient castles and in a variety of hotels, from the quaint Wildermann in Aschaffenburg to the rather swanky Edelweiss in Berchtesgaden.
It was a GREAT vacation, with lots of emphasis on local history, culture, etc - geared toward two 18 year olds who were thrilled to be allowed to wander the streets at night and drink beer legally!
We managed quite successfully and with no drama to avoid eating Turkish food the entire time, though we did have some fabulous Italian food in Nurmberg. It's not that I don't like shawarma - I just don't go to Germany to eat it. But then, the Italian food was fabulous - maybe that's just because I have a secret thing for Mussolini, who knows? (JUST KIDDING.) And actually, I've had street shawarma many times in Germany. Guess what - it tastes just like the shawarma we can get here in Texas (also served by people from Turkey). So there's no point in replicating it when I'm on vacation in Germany. In fact, I used to enjoy eating Turkish food in Germany (when we lived there) because it reminded me of the Turkish food I could get in the US - how ironic is that?
The trip was poignant to me because some things were very much the same, and other things were, of course, quite changed.
For instance, we had lived in some apartments in Aschaffenburg back in the 1990s. They dated back to WW2 - they were German officers' quarters in WW2. Then they were turned over to the occupying forces and were used by Americans till we closed nearly all the bases there (I was the last president of the officers wives club in Aschaffenburg, Germany - my claim to fame - LOL! The post was shut down while we lived there, which I think is a good thing). Then the beautiful, spacious (newly renovated, just for the record, at the massive expense of the US government) apartments were converted to public housing, and predominately Turkish immigrants were housed there. Within a few years, the formerly beautiful apartments were an eyesore and a trashed mess in the middle of that town. When we were there, the apartments were being demolished, for a large, "big box" shopping complex to be built there. They were about half way torn down, and they were filled with trash and graffiti. I am sure that the local populace was thrilled to have these eyesores removed and replaced, even if it's just with a chain hardware or home improvement store (which is what we were told would be built there).
As for our trip to England, I've already told you that we spent several days in London and then drove up to Yorkshire and spent about six days there, mostly with my daughter and her family who lived between Leeds and Harrogate.
I won't bore you with the details since I've shared them already.
So - enough about me. Tell me about your most recent trip to Texas! What was the duration of that trip and what terrain did you cover?
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 04-05-2016 at 03:51 PM..
There would be nothing offensive about me not putting such things on my itinerary. But I think it would be offensive to publicly declare my lack of interest in them.
Oh, I get it - you wouldn't share this with random strangers on the internet, who you will never meet - because even though you have no intention of visiting these "real" places, and have no interest in them, or certainly not enough to actually take the time to visit them, you would feel some sort of obligation to hide this truth from strangers online in a thread about international travel. And that makes you morally superior....how? I mean, the only difference I see between your approach and mine is that you just won't say where you won't go or why you won't go there online to strangers and I will. The actual application is the same.
Just as I won't take precious vacation time when I'm in Germany to go scope out the elements of Turkish culture there, you would have no intention of taking your precious vacation time to scope out elements of Korean or gang banger culture in Dallas. I mean, you wouldn't be going to Dallas to do that, now, would you? When in Dallas, you mean you wouldn't be particularly interested in taking some of your limited time and investing it in exploring the impact that the Korean community has had on Dallas? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU - WHERE IS YOUR MULTICULTURAL OPEN MINDEDNESS? Where is your respect? If I was Korean and Texan, should I be offended? Heck, I'm not even Korean and I'm starting to be offended. Obviously, you don't know what you're missing skipping out on KoTown. You're so small minded and dismissive of other cultures. What's wrong with you, coming to Dallas for three days and wanting to eat local food and go to a rodeo and check out Fort Worth and the museums and the Galleria when you could be hanging out on Harry Hines Boulevard or Oak Cliff and experiencing the REAL Dallas?
You know what else I'm uninterested in? Modern Art. If I have to choose between the Tate Modern Art Museum and the British National Gallery, I'll go to the National Gallery every time. In fact, I would rather go mudrucking on the Thames than spend an afternoon at the Tate. But hey, that's just me.
You want to know what else I'm uninterested in? NASCAR. I despise NASCAR. You could give me free tickets and a pit pass and two nights in a luxury hotel and I would still rather go spend two days passing out Meals on Wheels in Detroit suburbs than go to a NASCAR race. OH MY GOSH, WHAT IF I'VE OFFENDED SOMEONE WITH THAT STATEMENT? I am such an ugly American. Sheeze, I should be ashamed of myself.
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If I've spoken offensively towards you, it's because I find you objectionable - you're like one of those lawn-sprayers, but which has been filled up with ignorance.
Well, once again, we find ourselves in agreement - I feel the same about you! And not that it really matters, but I am getting a kick out of the comments C-D people are sending me regarding this thread (they're not in your favor, but I wouldn't want to offend you by sharing them).
You can drop the pretentious affectation of manners however - you and I both know you have meant to be insulting to me. Like I said, you get an "A" for creativity, anyway, regardless of the actual impact or lack thereof of your rudeness.
You're quite fun, actually! I doubt we'd get along well in real life, but you never know! Some of my best friends are difficult, gnarly people - I have a very high tolerance level for such types, and a forgiving nature as well. Besides that, I find such personality types very interesting. Carry on!
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 04-05-2016 at 04:13 PM..
OK, I get it, you want the full cliche. But if I were a Texan of Mexican heritage, I would be offended by anyone saying they were 'not interested' in seeing Mexican culture in Texas - and you certainly don't get to be the arbiter of this.
Likewise, declaring that you are 'not interested' in seeing Turkish culture in Germany or South Asian culture in the UK certainly is offensive to people with links to those cultures.
By the way, I want to come back to this.
What is the percentage of Turks in Germany? You may not know, and neither did I, so I researched it. There are 2.71 people living in Germany today who have at least one parent who is Turkish. That's about three percent of the total population.
In the UK, South Asians make up about three percent of the population as well.
Would you like to know what the percentage of Hispanics is in Texas? Well, I'll tell you - it's over 38 percent (some sources say that 45 percent of all Texans have Hispanic ancestry though they may not all identify as Hispanic). In south Texas, the area you specifically mentioned, the percentage is over 50 percent. Not only that, a large percentage of these Hispanics are native Tejanos, which mean that (get this) THEY WERE HERE FIRST. http://hardhatters.brazosnow.netdna-...n-2000-121.jpg
So, surely you can see a significant difference between my lack of interest in the cultural impacts of three percent of a country's population (most of whom are fairly recent immigrants or the descendants of fairly recent immigrants) vs your hypothetical lack of interest in the cultural impacts of over fifty percent of a region's population, much of which has been here for thousands of years and long before the flood of European immigrants and European colonization *(another difference between Tejanos in Texas and Turkish or Asian immigrants to Europe for the most part, though I'm sure there are a few exceptions).
You may not appreciate this lesson in sociology but there it is.
OK, I'll take your bait, but only because I'm bored. I'm sure my European vacations won't meet your standards, but I had a blast personally and since I was the one paying for it, that's really all that matters to me.
But anyway - please recall that prior to my various European vacations over the years, I did live in Germany for three years and of course traveled pretty extensively through Europe over those years. In fact, nearly every place we went to during that trip was a return trip to places we were already familiar with. It had been about fifteen years since we'd been back to Germany (this wasn't our first trip back after we left twenty years earlier). Oh, and another important point is that this particular trip was a graduation gift to our son and his best friend, who had never been to Europe and who loves history. He is also Jewish. So we wanted to be sure he got to see a lot of historical and cultural sights along the way.
The last two trips I took were each about two weeks long. The first was what we call our WW2 Tour. We flew into Belgium, rented a car, stayed with friends a day or two, and took in Brussels, Ghent, and various battlefields and monuments and museums in the Ardennes.
We meandered along then through Luxembourg and the Alsace Lorraine region of France. Then we drove on along to Freiberg, Lake Constance (aka as Bodensee) and then into Garmisch-Partenkirchen, where we stayed a few days, visited the Zugspitze, wandered around Garmisch, etc. We spent most of our time in the southern portion of Germany - the Alps, Neuschwanstein, Munich, Dachau, Nurmberg, Wurzburg, Rothenburg, Berchtesgaden, the Eagles Nest, etc. We also made a day trip into Austria - Salzburg and the Salt Mines. We flew out of Frankfurt.
Along the way, we enjoyed a mixture of big city centers as well as small towns and villages. We did some touristy things, and we also made time for drives along the rivers of upper Franconia, climbing over castle ruins, etc. We stayed in B & Bs, with friends, in ancient castles and in a variety of hotels, from the quaint Wildermann in Aschaffenburg to the rather swanky Edelweiss in Berchtesgaden.
It was a GREAT vacation, with lots of emphasis on local history, culture, etc - geared toward two 18 year olds who were thrilled to be allowed to wander the streets at night and drink beer legally!
We managed quite successfully and with no drama to avoid eating Turkish food the entire time, though we did have some fabulous Italian food in Nurmberg. It's not that I don't like shawarma - I just don't go to Germany to eat it. But then, the Italian food was fabulous - maybe that's just because I have a secret thing for Mussolini, who knows? (JUST KIDDING.) And actually, I've had street shawarma many times in Germany. Guess what - it tastes just like the shawarma we can get here in Texas (also served by people from Turkey). So there's no point in replicating it when I'm on vacation in Germany. In fact, I used to enjoy eating Turkish food in Germany (when we lived there) because it reminded me of the Turkish food I could get in the US - how ironic is that?
The trip was poignant to me because some things were very much the same, and other things were, of course, quite changed.
For instance, we had lived in some apartments in Aschaffenburg back in the 1990s. They dated back to WW2 - they were German officers' quarters in WW2. Then they were turned over to the occupying forces and were used by Americans till we closed nearly all the bases there (I was the last president of the officers wives club in Aschaffenburg, Germany - my claim to fame - LOL! The post was shut down while we lived there, which I think is a good thing). Then the beautiful, spacious (newly renovated, just for the record, at the massive expense of the US government) apartments were converted to public housing, and predominately Turkish immigrants were housed there. Within a few years, the formerly beautiful apartments were an eyesore and a trashed mess in the middle of that town. When we were there, the apartments were being demolished, for a large, "big box" shopping complex to be built there. They were about half way torn down, and they were filled with trash and graffiti. I am sure that the local populace was thrilled to have these eyesores removed and replaced, even if it's just with a chain hardware or home improvement store (which is what we were told would be built there).
As for our trip to England, I've already told you that we spent several days in London and then drove up to Yorkshire and spent about six days there, mostly with my daughter and her family who lived between Leeds and Harrogate.
I won't bore you with the details since I've shared them already.
So - enough about me. Tell me about your most recent trip to Texas! What was the duration of that trip and what terrain did you cover?
That's a very long way of telling us that all the pronouncements you've made about the various ways in which Europe has gone down-hill in the past twenty years are based on a week's road trip. The fact you lived n Europe a decade and a half prior to that does not affect the fact that your comparison between the two periods of time is based on a pretty minimal encounter.
It has nothing to do with your vacation 'meeting my standards' - it sounds like a great vacation. I just find it pretty astonishing how much you feel qualified to say off the back of it, that's all.
I visited Texas once, five years ago now. I spent a couple of weeks there. I had a great time, but only scratched the surface. Texas is a big place - about the size of France, which is one whole European country. I would not feel qualified to make any pronouncements about the state of Texas based on my trip there. Less still would I feel qualified to use the trip of which it was part - a month that was divided between four US states - to make any sweeping statements about the state of the US as a whole!
Last edited by George & Bill; 04-05-2016 at 07:30 PM..
What is the percentage of Turks in Germany? You may not know, and neither did I, so I researched it. There are 2.71 people living in Germany today who have at least one parent who is Turkish. That's about three percent of the total population.
In the UK, South Asians make up about three percent of the population as well.
Would you like to know what the percentage of Hispanics is in Texas? Well, I'll tell you - it's over 38 percent (some sources say that 45 percent of all Texans have Hispanic ancestry though they may not all identify as Hispanic). In south Texas, the area you specifically mentioned, the percentage is over 50 percent. Not only that, a large percentage of these Hispanics are native Tejanos, which mean that (get this) THEY WERE HERE FIRST. http://hardhatters.brazosnow.netdna-...n-2000-121.jpg
So, surely you can see a significant difference between my lack of interest in the cultural impacts of three percent of a country's population (most of whom are fairly recent immigrants or the descendants of fairly recent immigrants) vs your hypothetical lack of interest in the cultural impacts of over fifty percent of a region's population, much of which has been here for thousands of years and long before the flood of European immigrants and European colonization *(another difference between Tejanos in Texas and Turkish or Asian immigrants to Europe for the most part, though I'm sure there are a few exceptions).
You may not appreciate this lesson in sociology but there it is.
I really think you should find something better to do with your time than writing these long, barely coherent screeds. My point is simply that comments like this:
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Frankly, if I want to go to Bangladesh or Istanbul, I'll go there - I don't go to Europe to experience those cultures.
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It's not that I don't like shawarma - I just don't go to Germany to eat it. [...] I've had street shawarma many times in Germany. Guess what - it tastes just like the shawarma we can get here in Texas (also served by people from Turkey).
Just drip with contempt - Turkish food is just schawarma, right? And it tastes the same from Dallas to Dortmund.
Given that Turkish food is widely revered as one of the world's great cuisines for its complexity and variety, it would be pretty insulting to equate it a single street snack. But you go further! You've actually sought to reduce Turkish food to shawarma - which is not even principally a Turkish dish.
I would not think less of anyone for prioritising what they might see as 'traditional' European culture during a a short vacation. But every mention you make of non-European culture in Europe drips with contempt, and it's quite ugly to behold.
It's very true that people of non-European heritage still make up a pretty small percentage of the population of Europe - a fact rather at odds with your earlier dog-whistle statement about the continent's becoming 'crowded with immigrants'. This does not make your snarky comments any less unbecoming.
Just an aside, this 'conversation' reminded me of my first trip to Paris. About 15 years ago now. Having all my life been prepared for the cuisine, I couldn't wait to 'eat' my way through my stay... Croissants, of course, any bread or pastry really, sauces... all the meals I had drooled over from Julia Child's cooking...and my most memorable was a sidewalk cafe where I had the most delicious Vietnamese dish...along with my French (of course) wine.
That's a very long way of telling us that all the pronouncements you've made about the various ways in which Europe has gone down-hill in the past twenty years are based on a week's road trip. The fact you lived n Europe a decade and a half prior to that does not affect the fact that your comparison between the two periods of time is based on a pretty minimal encounter.
It has nothing to do with your vacation 'meeting my standards' - it sounds like a great vacation. I just find it pretty astonishing how much you feel qualified to say off the back of it, that's all.
Some things I think you should be able to realize since you've been so focused on my posts on this topic - and I've stated the following facts clearly. But I'll repeat them:
I am not basing my comparison on one a one week road trip. I have friends who live in Europe. We communicate regularly. I also read news from a wide variety of sources every day, including the BBC, PBS, and a wide range of other national and international news outlets -from liberal to conservative. I also read books on current events in Europe because the topic interests me. And finally, my "road trip" was not my first or last trip back to Europe in twenty years and it wasn't one week - it was two weeks. I didn't visit many new places - instead the trip consisted nearly completely of revisiting old, familiar places, mostly in Germany, as I've already stated. So the changes weren't very difficult to observe and note.
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I visited Texas once, five years ago now. I spent a couple of weeks there. I had a great time, but only scratched the surface. Texas is a big place - about the size of France, which is one whole European country. I would not feel qualified to make any pronouncements about the state of Texas based on my trip there. Less still would I feel qualified to use the trip of which it was part - a month that was divided between four US states - to make any sweeping statements about the state of the US as a whole!
There are some significant differences in the two scenarios.
First of all, apparently you've never lived for years in Texas. I lived in Germany for three years. Secondly, you've spent two weeks in Texas in your entire life. I've spent about 160 weeks in Germany over my lifetime. So my pool of experiences is a bit wider than yours and I've got a lot more reference points that I'm familiar with.
You honestly don't feel like you could make any pronouncements at all about the state of Texas based on two weeks here, though? Not, "Wow, the weather there sure is different from the weather in most of Europe," or "Tex Mex food is fantastic," or "There are lots of Hispanics in Texas" or "Wow, there are a lot of churches in Texas" or "Most of the people sure were friendly" - you got nothin'?
Now - if you had actually LIVED in, say, Dallas TX in the 1990s and then you came back for a visit last year and suddenly, you really couldn't help but notice that there were MARKEDLY more Hispanics here now - you don't think you would be able to recognize that fact and articulate it? Because - well, it's pretty obvious, and it's true. You have a problem stating the obvious truth?
I really think you should find something better to do with your time than writing these long, barely coherent screeds.
What I do between loads of laundry, and other forms of housework (this is my deep cleaning day) is really my business, but if my "screeds" bother you, then maybe you should just put me on ignore.
I'm far from incoherent, by the way, and you and I both know it. You're a fine one to talk about posts dripping with contempt, when yours to me are filled with personal insults. Get off your high horse and practice what you preach.
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Just drip with contempt - Turkish food is just schawarma, right? And it tastes the same from Dallas to Dortmund.
Oh my - how you see what you so desperately want to see. What's that quote..."What we see in others is often a reflection of ourselves."
I actually like Turkish food, including but not limited to shawarma. That being said, yes, we have some very good Turkish and Middle Eastern food places in Texas. I go there often, which is why I have no desire to eat more ME food when I'm traveling in Europe. It just doesn't appeal to me any more than a Big Mac (or as they say in Pulp Fiction a "Royale") or a pizza from Pizza Hut appeals to me when I'm in Europe.
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Given that Turkish food is widely revered as one of the world's great cuisines for its complexity and variety, it would be pretty insulting to equate it a single street snack. But you go further! You've actually sought to reduce Turkish food to shawarma - which is not even principally a Turkish dish.
I was being facetious but I guess it's too much to expect you to acknowledge or understand that. It was just an example I used, that's all. I'm not writing a dissertation on Turkish cuisine.
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I would not think less of anyone for prioritising what they might see as 'traditional' European culture during a a short vacation. But every mention you make of non-European culture in Europe drips with contempt, and it's quite ugly to behold.
Once again - I think you may be seeing a reflection of your own contempt toward others.
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It's very true that people of non-European heritage still make up a pretty small percentage of the population of Europe - a fact rather at odds with your earlier dog-whistle statement about the continent's becoming 'crowded with immigrants'. This does not make your snarky comments any less unbecoming.
So now Europe doesn't have an immigration problem. Wow, that's nice to know! And here I was thinking that over 1 million refugees have flooded Europe in 2015 and 2016. Silly me.
Please note that the immigrant populations I was discussing in my breakdown of percentages were ONLY Turkish immigrants to Germany, and Asian immigrants to the UK, and in direct response to your statements about those groups only. I was not discussing in that particular conversation all immigrants to all European countries. That's a whole other ball of wax. And a growing one at that.
As you know (I don't even know why I'm saying this to you), there are areas of Europe which have more of an influx of immigrants. Germany is one of those areas and the vast majority of those immigrants are from the Middle East. This is a recent phenomenon and wasn't really in play when I last visited Germany about three years ago. Up to that time, the largest group of immigrants (aka "guest workers") in Germany were "the Turks." When I lived in Germany, near Frankfurt, there were about 2 million Turks in the country. When I went back a few years ago, there were about 3 million Turks. Since they tend to settle in larger metro areas - such as Frankfurt - the increase in numbers was striking. I'm not blaming them for coming to Germany - I'm just stating that there was already a significant increase in that ONE immigrant group before the influx of at least 500,000 more immigrants, mostly from Syria, in the past 18 months or so, in Germany alone. In fact, Germany has processed over 1 million refugees, though about half of them have been sent to other European countries.
This is a sociological and logistical problem. It just IS. I am not making it so, I'm just commenting on the obvious. There has been a corresponding increase in terrorist attacks throughout Europe as well. There will be more, and more regularly, if the pattern continues. There are far reaching sociological challenges and issues that Europe will face due to this ongoing situation.
So yeah -I'd rather wait for things to settle down a bit "across the pond," before I go back for another European vacation. This doesn't mean "the terrorists have won," or that "I'm afraid I'm going to get blown up," or anything that silly. It doesn't mean I hate or hold in disdain Turkish people, or Asian people, or Middle Eastern people. All it means is that 1) I miss the relative peace and individuality of distinct European countries twenty years ago, and 2) I don't have a burning desire to go back to Europe right now, with these issues being more prevalent, and considering the fact that I've seen so much of it already (and for that I'm thankful).
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