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That says more about Italy though. I think in like Germany or Austria poor people can receive much more.
For Germany:
Single person: €409
Domestic partner: €368
Child 0-5 years: €237
Child 6-13 years: €291
Child 14-17 years €311
Additionally rent and utilities are paid by the communities, but the amount is restricted. Restrictions for Düsseldorf:
1 person: €457
2 persons: €566
3 persons: €718
4 persons: €886
5 persons: €1,167
These amounts don't include the costs for heating. That comes on top of that.
A family of 4 with 2 teenagers here in Düsseldorf would get up to about €2,385. (1399 + 886 + maybe 100 for heating). The amount would be even higher when people need a special diet or when they are disabled. They also pay for certain purchases and activities (domestic appliances, baby equipment, class trips). But that seems to depend on the local community or advisor.
It's in my opinion not difficult to live on these amounts. It's very important that the job center push these people to get a new job.
And one has to keep in mind that to earn around 2,400€ with the tremendous German tax burden and health insurance etc. you have to earn like 4,000€ a month before tax to have so much left after tax and social security. This is quite a good salary level which most of the entitled will never achieve by working.
And one has to keep in mind that to earn around 2,400€ with the tremendous German tax burden and health insurance etc. you have to earn like 4,000€ a month before tax to have so much left after tax and social security. This is quite a good salary level which most of the entitled will never achieve by working.
Basically I agree with you. But it's not that bad. Income splitting and child allowance reduce the needed gross salary to get to €2,400 disposable income.
€2,700 gross income
- €10.06 Kirchensteuer
- €111.83 income tax
- €252.45 pension insurance
- €40.50 unemployment insurance
- €226.80 healthcare insurance
- €41.18 nursing care insurance
€2,017.19 net income
+ 380.00 child allowance
€2,397.19 disposable income
The tax burden in Germany is horrific for single persons without kids. Such persons indeed need a gross income of €4,000 to achieve a net income of about €2,400.
You are right that for quite a lot of people it doesn't make much sense to work. It makes often more sense to
get unemployment benefits. I have the impression that in some city districts in Düsseldorf a large portion of the population live solely on social benefits
In my opinion they should reduce the social security contributions for lower and middle income people and finance a larger portion of the costs by tax receipts.
I'd suggesting watching some of the videos of degenerate human behavior and ask yourself if you would hire such people. Nobody in their right mind would. Many of those people have never held a job in their lives and never will.
Not sure how the tax works since I've only been here for 3 years and something, and I don't have a steady job. Not sure everyone pays taxes, just like France where the poorest do not pay them.
Where is the money ? Good question. Mismanaged probably, at all society levels.
As I said in another post, Italian welfare is totally skewed in favour of the current elders, many of whom I know that retired at a very young age (even less than 50 year old) with a fat monthly pension check for life. Also, in Italy a large share of pensioners has more than one pension.
Finally, there is no upper limit to the pension amount, so that some top state bureaucrats gets insanely high pensions
Italy, like the Roman Catholic Church, is a system in which all the power is in the hands of the elders. It is a gerontocracy
But all this is coming to an end. For the current young generation, the pensions are to be computed strictly based on the amount paid in contributions during the working life, so hopefully in the future Italy will not have to spend so much for the pensions.
I think it's ridiculous that the income tax is that high (like 40%?) and then get such little welfare. I think it's worth it when the system is like France where students and parents receive lots of benefits, but Italy doesn't even have those, where's all the tax money? There are well-functioning healthcare systems in Asia and people pay like only 10% of their income on taxes.
All the tax money goes to the elders, as I said in my reply to forgotten username.
But I agree with your general assessment that tax rates in Italy are way too high for what we get back, and I say that being an Italian myself.
Basically I agree with you. But it's not that bad. Income splitting and child allowance reduce the needed gross salary to get to €2,400 disposable income.
€2,700 gross income
- €10.06 Kirchensteuer
- €111.83 income tax
- €252.45 pension insurance
- €40.50 unemployment insurance
- €226.80 healthcare insurance
- €41.18 nursing care insurance
€2,017.19 net income
+ 380.00 child allowance
€2,397.19 disposable income
The tax burden in Germany is horrific for single persons without kids. Such persons indeed need a gross income of €4,000 to achieve a net income of about €2,400.
You are right that for quite a lot of people it doesn't make much sense to work. It makes often more sense to
get unemployment benefits. I have the impression that in some city districts in Düsseldorf a large portion of the population live solely on social benefits
In my opinion they should reduce the social security contributions for lower and middle income people and finance a larger portion of the costs by tax receipts.
As I said in another post, Italian welfare is totally skewed in favour of the current elders, many of whom I know that retired at a very young age (even less than 50 year old) with a fat monthly pension check for life. Also, in Italy a large share of pensioners has more than one pension.
Finally, there is no upper limit to the pension amount, so that some top state bureaucrats gets insanely high pensions
Italy, like the Roman Catholic Church, is a system in which all the power is in the hands of the elders. It is a gerontocracy
But all this is coming to an end. For the current young generation, the pensions are to be computed strictly based on the amount paid in contributions during the working life, so hopefully in the future Italy will not have to spend so much for the pensions.
Yeah, I was thinking about the case of people being paid for working for the elections.
Basically, everytime elections are held, local or national, random citizens are selected to be available for helping the elections, I am not sure about the exact words in english, but basically receiving the voters, classifying, do all the little actions which are necessary for a public election to be held.
Usually people get a day or two off their jobs, and instead go to their local voting place (usually a school or other public place) for an entire day, often from 7 am to 10 pm, and get paid pretty well, like probably 150 euros for the entire day. For anyone this a good occasion to be useful for the country while receiving some extra cash. Bear in mind the elections often take place during weekdays. By comparison in France the elections are always held on sundays and noone gets paid to help, it's all for the passion of politics.
To do that you have to enroll on a list, and one day you are chosen.
Of course since this is Italy some people succeed to pass through the list and end up being chosen much more often than what a random system would statistically allow.
Here in Bologna anyone over 45 blindly votes for the PD (Renzi's party, i.e. the old school left) and in my neighborhood where the average age must be about 50, everytime there are elections there are the same old retired dudes being chosen for the elections, and these people have all retired in their early 50s, and have a pension which is probably higher than the median salary nowadays. And yet the same old people complain about the youth (i.e., people under 40) not succeeding in life or not wanting to work.
I heard the same thing when I went to the local neighborhood city office to do all bureaucracy stuff for getting italian permanent residency, and when the woman said something like "oh, you have to look for a steady job" or "but you don't have a normal work contract" (I only ever get short term contracts like almost everyone). I was wondering if these people have realized society has changed in this country...
A Gerontocracy indeed.
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