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Despite your post being all over the place, I will address some of the points you raise
Britain's ethnic data is not based on race, it is based on national origin. Hence why I know that British Nigerian kids outperform the academic mean at schools in Britain today. But likewise I know Somalian children currently underperform compared to the mean. That data isn't used to bash Somali kids, which Scandinavians like to suggest, actually it is used to know where to direct funding. So specific groups can catch up, it is very useful as it shows weird anomalies. Like until recently Indian children did fine at school, but children of Pakistani and Bangladesh origin did not perform nearly as well. So get your facts straight
Like Kul, you completely misunderstood the my point regarding the London mayor. Look I run an IT business, I know for fact in Sweden for example people see my skin colour first and see my talent afterwards because of societal associations based on race. In London that doesn't happen very often if at all, because people don't have nearly as many strong preconceptions of what X type of person can and should be doing.
Likewise when it comes down to a popular vote the whole point is that race, gender or religious affiliation DOES NOT matter in places like London, all that does matter is whether X individual is the BEST person for the job. I can't see a french Sadiq Khan doing so well in Paris due to heavy amount of islamophobia there. As for Labour doing well in London, you are aware the previous mayor for the last two terms was a white right wing Conservative in the guise of Boris Johnson
I don't base my opinions on Continental Europeans solely on my experience. I look at data focusing on the performance of non white minorities in European nations.
Currently only in the UK can you observe Black, Asian, Arab and foreign white populations consistently achieving economic parity with the white native population and a high level of academic success. In France, Germany, the Netherlands etc by comparison, it is clear that minorities by and large underperform economically and sadly often academically compared to the native population. That is why I don't think much of France for example, as people of North African extraction suffer from much higher levels of poverty than a white French people and suffer blatant heavy discrimination.
Linked to this is another issue that has played a role in the UK debate on immigration, ONWARD migration. It is now becoming very clear that immigrants are voting with their feet. With sizeable onward migration from Germany, Sweden, France and the Netherlands by non white immigrants to the UK. When asked why they had left the initial country in which they had gained citizenship, Racism/ Discrimination was cited as a major reason. In the case of the Turkish community, it is interesting that the guest worker population has failed to integrate at all, but Turks who have onward migrated to Britain have been very successful in London. A short walk along Green Lanes and around Stoke Newington shows you that. The only reason for the discrepancy in economic performance if the people are the same are barriers to socio-economic progression in Germany (take a guess as to what that maybe).
Likewise in Sweden it was clear that they had a massive problem retaining foreign talent as professionals came and stayed only for a few years before leaving (again take a guess as to why and it isn't only the weather). Also even educated migrants in Sweden for example shows much higher unemployment rates compared to native Swedes.
All of the above data is available on the web for you to check.
The BNP and National Front are largely dead. UKIP has only one seat in parliament and Britain First has no mainstream political presence at all. A democratic system is a democratic system you cant keep going back to that old chestnut to explain away your failings.. I didn't ignore Spain, I suggest you google racism in Spain before opening up that can of worms.. lol
Please don't try to make out Le Pen supporters like people who look like me or Arabs ok...
What you are saying is absolutely wrong and unfortunately, most Britons think exactly like you.
1) First you say "Currently only in the UK can you observe Black, Asian, Arab and foreign white populations consistently achieving economic parity with the white native population and a high level of academic success. "
WRONG ! not as much as in other EU country.
2) According to British and European studies (many polls have been used for these studies), Britons, Italians and American people are the less tolerant towards Muslims and non white population and French people are the most tolerant. (except if you read the British propaganda against France)
3) Migrants who came to France between 1900 and 2016 are all from a law background. The poorest part of 3rdWorld countries
Migrants who came to Britain were not from law backgrounds.
5) I never understood why Britons think they are the most tolerant when they are probably the most racist. They should follow the French secularism, integration and tolerance !
if France was agreeable to immigrants they would claim asylum there and they don't want to. Says it all really..
That's funny comment because there are twice more asylum seekers in France than in Britain.
Why do you think there are so few migrants in Calais who want to go to Britain when there are 145 times more at French borders?
Also, you have 9.89% of Muslims in France vs 3.1% in Britain.
67% of people living in France have at least one of their parent or grand parent who was not French born in France vs 17% in Britain.
48% of people living in France have at least one of their parent or grand parent who is not French.
France forbids ethnic census, so I can't produce any data for France because they don't exist.
Anything else is guesstimate.
Yes, they are close but you said that Indians and Chinese were above. I prove you wrong.
You said "They do Caribbeans have pay levels and employment levels comparable to the average
While Indians, Nigerians and Chinese at times earn more than the national average."
Data show that they are a bit under the average.
And no, UK is not the only country in Europe where immigrant earn in average as much as native or more.
There are also some eastern European countries where it is the case.
About France, the large majority of immigrants don't come to work (family regroupment, students and refugees) because France stopped work immigration in the 70s.
A wrong decision in my opinion because it reduces the number of skilled immigrants.
"It is reported that some illegal migrants want to come to the UK because there is no national system of identity cards and police cannot stop people in the street to ask for their papers. This would make it easier to go about their business, as detection is difficult." Would Calais migrants really be better off in the UK? - BBC News
Not even the mayor of Paris can.
What does the housing price in Hackney or Harringay has do with the poverty levels? London is one of the most expensive place in the world. Even a poor area is going to be expensive in London. Especially when a large part of the population in Inner London live in social housing.
Hackney being quite centrally located has seen gentrification, yet it still has high level of poverty in some area.
I'm not trying to claim this, it is an UK gouvermental office who claims it.
Hackney and Harringay have some of the most deprived places in England.
"Deprivation is measured across seven different areas or domains - income, employment, health, education, living environment, crime and barriers to services using a wide range of indicators, and the methods used show how each area compares with other areas across England using a combination of all these indicators."
"The supplementary indices, measuring the extent of income deprivation among children and among older people show that Tower Hamlets has the highest levels of children living in income deprivation in England. The proportion is lower than five years earlier, despite the fact that this measure relates to data from around the end of the recession, whereas the previous version relied on data from the start of the recession. Islington, Barking & Dagenham, Hackney, Newham, Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham are also among the top ten local authorities on this measure."
To be back in my point. Why Turks owning small businesses in working class neighborhoods would be a sign of success in UK but not in Germany?
Isn't it the opposite?
You seem to confuse pupils grades with incomes, minorities with immigrants, average price with poverty...
Does it matter?
Yet again you have not addressed the data I cited earlier so this debate is over.
Citing me being confused is pretty weak I am afraid.
As for your ethnicity, it is very important. On one side you have me a black male defending a European country for its tolerance (a rare thing on this side of the water in city data). Whereas we have you a Caucasian on the other side poorly trying to pretend your country France is anywhere near as tolerant as the UK.
Address the articles I raised directly or I cannot continue this debate.
But from this debate I want minority posters to understand only this :
1. No French person of colour has any wide ranging political power over a population of millions in France
2. If you are from a minority in England you are more likely to receive a quality of education comparable to whites. Education as we know is the gate way to higher paying jobs.
3. All data in we have from France suggests if you are of arabic extraction you are more likely to be poorer and less employable than your white counterparts and especially when compared to Arabs in England.
4. Despite some gaps in pay and employment between foreigners and natives, it often closes and is the best you can expect given racism inherent in all societies. Or you can take your chances in France where gaps are larger and more obvious based on what little data we have.
5. France has more geographic segregation by race than England.
6. Depite weak protestations to the contrary, migrants prefer to head to UK. Many despite receiving citizenship in other EU countries they still head onward to the UK.
7. Currently no political party with neo-fascist links has any mainstream representation in the UK parliament unlike in France.
Finally you can trust the words of a black man who has worked in the financial sector across Europe and became a multi-millionaire in the UK. Or the words of a white Frenchman who has never faced racism and will probably claim he is from a minority later.
Take your pick people ....
Just took a real good look at one of the articles you yourself cited
First line : "Most immigrants to the UK earn about the same as similarly skilled native workers – some might even earn more. These are among the findings of research on the immigrant-native earnings gap by Sara Lemos, which she presented to the Royal Economic Society’s 2014 annual conference" Has someone been cherry picking..?
Sorry but selective citations that you have been engaging in do not make for a honest debate...
Also you made an assertion that "There are also some eastern European countries where it is the case. " with regards to foreigners earning more than the natives. Please cite your data and show me if that is true for any non-whites in those respective nations
"Ghanaians have a higher percentage of their population in employment than the UK average"
Also for Nigerians under "Average gross hourly pay from main job of economically-active working-age population, by country of birth, 1995/96 and 2005/06"
In 1995/6 their average earnings were higher than the UK average of £7.30 at £7.90 As I said in no other European country has a black population had a higher level of employment that the native average or had wages higher than the average. Like I said it oscillates, but at least it has occurred.. Likewise Kenyans and Indians have also earned more the UK average based on those figures
Now find for me comparative figures for france or are you going to keep pretending no data exists???
Yet again you have not addressed the data I cited earlier so this debate is over.
Citing me being confused is pretty weak I am afraid.
As for your ethnicity, it is very important. On one side you have me a black male defending a European country for its tolerance (a rare thing on this side of the water in city data). Whereas we have you a Caucasian on the other side poorly trying to pretend your country France is anywhere near as tolerant as the UK.
Address the articles I raised directly or I cannot continue this debate.
But from this debate I want minority posters to understand only this :
1. No French person of colour has any wide ranging political power over a population of millions in France
2. If you are from a minority in England you are more likely to receive a quality of education comparable to whites. Education as we know is the gate way to higher paying jobs.
3. All data in we have from France suggests if you are of arabic extraction you are more likely to be poorer and less employable than your white counterparts and especially when compared to Arabs in England.
4. Despite some gaps in pay and employment between foreigners and natives, it often closes and is the best you can expect given racism inherent in all societies. Or you can take your chances in France where gaps are larger and more obvious based on what little data we have.
5. France has more geographic segregation by race than England.
6. Depite weak protestations to the contrary, migrants prefer to head to UK. Many despite receiving citizenship in other EU countries they still head onward to the UK.
7. Currently no political party with neo-fascist links has any mainstream representation in the UK parliament unlike in France.
Finally you can trust the words of a black man who has worked in the financial sector across Europe and became a multi-millionaire in the UK. Or the words of a white Frenchman who has never faced racism and will probably claim he is from a minority later.
Take your pick people ....
1. Wrong, infact very few in politics are ethnic French...
Nicolas Sarkozy,Rama Yade, Fadela Amara, Christian Tobira, rachida dati, Manuel Valls, Mayor of Paris, and Most Ministers are NOT ETHNIC FRENCH ! http://madame.lefigaro.fr/societe/mo...-141013-605312
2. Wrong! Education is free in France, there is no racial and social segregation like in the UK.
3. Yes but, Pakistani, Blacks, Indian, Turks etc are more likely to be poorer and less employable than their white counterparts in the Uk when compared to France...
It is a fact!
4. "between foreigners and naties" WRONG again. Where have you found that?
5. Wrong ! Blacks and Arabs in the Parisian banlieues are not representative of the non white population in France. Travel in France plz!
6. WRONG ! Much more ask to go to France by 110%
7. People in France who vote for Front National have no link with faschism.
Faschism does not exist in France contrary to what you have in the UK and Germany.
CONCLUSION:
YOU live in a total British propaganda and anti French/ France like 99.99% of Britons. and it is a fact !
Yet again you have not addressed the data I cited earlier so this debate is over.
Citing me being confused is pretty weak I am afraid.
As for your ethnicity, it is very important. On one side you have me a black male defending a European country for its tolerance (a rare thing on this side of the water in city data). Whereas we have you a Caucasian on the other side poorly trying to pretend your country France is anywhere near as tolerant as the UK.
Address the articles I raised directly or I cannot continue this debate.
But from this debate I want minority posters to understand only this :
1. No French person of colour has any wide ranging political power over a population of millions in France
2. If you are from a minority in England you are more likely to receive a quality of education comparable to whites. Education as we know is the gate way to higher paying jobs.
3. All data in we have from France suggests if you are of arabic extraction you are more likely to be poorer and less employable than your white counterparts and especially when compared to Arabs in England.
4. Despite some gaps in pay and employment between foreigners and natives, it often closes and is the best you can expect given racism inherent in all societies. Or you can take your chances in France where gaps are larger and more obvious based on what little data we have.
5. France has more geographic segregation by race than England.
6. Depite weak protestations to the contrary, migrants prefer to head to UK. Many despite receiving citizenship in other EU countries they still head onward to the UK.
7. Currently no political party with neo-fascist links has any mainstream representation in the UK parliament unlike in France.
Finally you can trust the words of a black man who has worked in the financial sector across Europe and became a multi-millionaire in the UK. Or the words of a white Frenchman who has never faced racism and will probably claim he is from a minority later.
Take your pick people ....
Sorry but bragging about size of your bank account actually decreases your credibility.
2. Wrong! Education is free in France, there is no racial and social segregation like in the UK.
3. Yes but, Pakistani, Blacks, Indian, Turks etc are more likely to be poorer and less employable than their white counterparts in the Uk when compared to France...
It is a fact!
4. "between foreigners and naties" WRONG again. Where have you found that?
5. Wrong ! Blacks and Arabs in the Parisian banlieues are not representative of the non white population in France. Travel in France plz!
6. WRONG ! Much more ask to go to France by 110%
7. People in France who vote for Front National have no link with faschism.
Faschism does not exist in France contrary to what you have in the UK and Germany.
CONCLUSION:
YOU live in a total British propaganda and anti French/ France like 99.99% of Britons. and it is a fact !
Shouting wrong does not make you right buddy, provide the evidence to back up your claims..
I am not 100% British, although I am hated for mentioning it I am British Nigerian at best and spent significant periods of my childhood in the US in LA / NYC.
I speak French and Swedish. I have spent significant amounts of time in France and worked/lived in La Defense and Victor Hugo. I know your country well and how they treat people who look like me...
Sorry but bragging about size of your bank account actually decreases your credibility.
Couldn't care less what you think, my bank balance merely shows a person of colour can make it socio-economically in the UK nothing more
Its like when people argue that black people never attain higher education in the US in the North American threads, then when an African American says "but I have an Ivy league education" they are accused of boasting LOL
Couldn't care less what you think, my bank balance merely shows a person of colour can make it socio-economically in the UK nothing more
Its like when people argue that black people never attain higher education in the US in the North American threads, then when an African American says "but I have an Ivy league education" they are accused of boasting LOL
Try again mate
I'm almost done buddy
It could be a cultural thing but where I live people with huge bank accounts don't brag about it.
But carry on with your tackiness while I grab the popcorn.
It could be a cultural thing but where I live people with huge bank accounts don't brag about it.
But carry on with your tackiness while I grab the popcorn.
As I said the point is not that I am richer than you so my opinion carries more weight.
It is that I have worked across Europe experienced racism in a number of countries, seen and researched how minorities are treated in those countries and come to conclude that Britain holds the best prospects for visibly non white minorities (its not perfect but better than the others).
Plus I can personally prove that is the case as I have been succesful financially there. See no need for popcorn...
I await a few more European caucasians who will set me straight on racism in Europe lol
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