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Old 07-01-2016, 02:05 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,200 posts, read 13,489,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
They sure like England's cash though. Maybe Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland should all demand a referendum for independence.
Or maybe England should be the one demanding a referendum.
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Old 07-03-2016, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in Southern Italy
2,974 posts, read 2,817,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The French and Spanish will not allow Scotland to join the EU.

Brexit: Spain and France oppose Scotland EU talks - BBC News

They are worried about Basque Separatists in their own countries.

It only takes one veto, however Scotland has two and it should be noted than any new member country would have to join the Euro, which would see Scotland have a different currency to the rest of the UK and would necessitate a trading agreement with the Rest of the UK and proper national borders established. Scotland does over £50 Billion worth of Trade with England and the rest of the UK, and only around £11 Billion worth of trade with the EU. Having trading restrictions and a different currency in relation to the UK would be disastrous for Scotland.
Depends! France won't care because the Basque separatists are a negligible presence, they will probably be more worried about Corsica but as is, the independist parties there don't have enough force to be conceded a referendum and actually win it because they are split in countless factions.

Spain would be more worried given its issue with Basque but especially Catalan separatists. Both want a referendum but the Spanish constitution doesn't allow for there being one either so they might resort to abstention. In Spain, it depends from the government by the way, a PP-Ciudadanos government would be against, a PSOE-PODEMOS would probably be in favour. A Grand Coalition would abstain
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:38 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
Reputation: 5615
Quote:
Originally Posted by User654 View Post
For Northern Ireland it is simple: re-unite with Ireland.
Northern Ireland is the last remainder of the english invasion centuries ago. Giving it back to Ireland would be the correct end of this aggression.
Those people who call this part of Ireland "Ulster" and think it is part of England must decide: become Irish or move to England.
the people you speak of are of scottish descent , were they to leave northern ireland , they would most likely move to scotland , their cultural connection to the british mainland has always been with scotland , not england

as for the brexit effect on northern ireland , without question it has brought forward the prospect of a united ireland , thats not to say a united ireland is many years closer but the issue has been put back on the horizon by brexit
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:42 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giveandtake View Post
I can't think of any situation where the Ulster-Scots people could live in harmony with the Southern Irish, their cultures are just too different.Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land.

To sum it up, Northern Ireland has improved significantly but the economy is too reliant on the public sector and no one is wanting to invest there. The population is also too low for improvements in infrastructure such as rail.
the cultures are very similar between northern unionists and people in the republic of ireland , we are not comparing iran and denmark here

there is no reason ulster protestants would not blend in very well with a united ireland , id welcome the addition of their plain spoken, direct ,no nonsense manner , we could rejoin the commonwealth as part of a deal too
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Old 07-04-2016, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,059,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by improb View Post
Depends! France won't care because the Basque separatists are a negligible presence, they will probably be more worried about Corsica but as is, the independist parties there don't have enough force to be conceded a referendum and actually win it because they are split in countless factions.

The French government has had no qualms in the past flirting with separatist movements in other countries while in the same breath saying the situation in France (with Euskadi, Corsica, etc.) is "not the same at all".
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Old 07-04-2016, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,485 posts, read 12,541,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the cultures are very similar between northern unionists and people in the republic of ireland , we are not comparing iran and denmark here

there is no reason ulster protestants would not blend in very well with a united ireland , id welcome the addition of their plain spoken, direct ,no nonsense manner , we could rejoin the commonwealth as part of a deal too
What is the benefit to rejoining the Commonwealth?
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Old 07-05-2016, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,200 posts, read 13,489,086 times
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Never mind any veto, the Spanish have made it clear they would even oppose talks with Scotland, and that if the UK goes Scotland goes as well. Although even if the Scots were not vetoes there economy does not meet EU Criteria and they would have to adopt the Euro and become part of the Eurozone.

Which would mean Scotland would have a different currency to the rest of the UK, which it does over £50 Billion of trade with Scotland compared with a mere £11 Billion of Scottish trade with the EU, and trade between Scotland and the rest of the UK could be effected as could the Scottish econpmy which is far more alligned and intergrated with the rest of the UK than it is with the EU.

There would have to be border controls for Scotland, Trade Agreements with the English and there economy would be controlled via the Eurozone, in fact in reality an Independent Scotland in the EU would it many ways be less Independent and have very little say on it's own affairs.

As for the SNP they are a bit like UKIP, a one trick pony, and nobody knows what there purpose would be in the event of independence, however the way they kowtowed to Donald Trump in Aberdeenshire rather than protecting local people makes me wonder about their true values.

Furthermore Scotland has 59 MP's in Westminster, a significant representation within the small island it shares with England and Wales, whilst Scotland has only 6 MEP's representing it in the Europe Parliament.

So Scotland would lose it's representation at Westminister and have very little say in UK issues, whilst it's 6 MEP's would give it virtually no say in Europe and would have to submit to the Euro and Eurozone, as well as future EU legislation, EU Taxes, EU Laws and an increasing European Constitution.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy opposes EU talks with Scotland | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbes

In order to join the EU you’ve got to have a budget deficit of 3% of GDP or less or be obviously (which allows for some fudging) moving in that direction. And Scotland, now that oil has plummeted, simply is not there. It’s difficult, given the intertwining of British and Scottish accounts to get it exactly right but reasonable estimates have the Scottish alone budget deficit at 8 to 10% of GDP.

The Problem With Scotland's Desire To Be In The EU - They Wouldn't Be Accepted As Members - Forbes


Scotland risks becoming Greece without the sun, says thinktank - The Guardian

Independent Scotland in the euro 'like Greece without the sun', Nicola Sturgeon warned - The Telegraph

Independent Scotland in Europe ‘like Greece without the sun’, Nicola Sturgeon warned - The Independent

Last edited by Brave New World; 07-05-2016 at 04:04 AM..
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:49 AM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,930,915 times
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Those who are flirting with the idea of Scottish independence need to be able to answer these (amongst other) questions.

1. What will be the impact of the loss of Barnett fiscal transfers to Scotland on public revenue, taxation and services? This is even more important given the loss of fiscal revenue from oil. For reference, the fiscal deficit is £15 billion or around 9.7% of GDP and the fiscal transfer is around £10 billion/year.

2. What currency will Scotland use? A 'pound' with or without a monetary union? And if there is no monetary union, how will they maintain parity with the UK pound? And if they do not, does that mean a separate currency called the Scottish pound and where will they get the hard currency reserves to support that currency? Or will it be the Euro and, if so, how will iScotland achieve the criteria for accession and what currency will they use in the interim? And how would the EU react to an iScotland in a currency union with a non-member?

3. If there is no UK/EU free trade agreement how will tariffs on Scottish trade with rUK affect the Scottish economy given that trade with rUK is four times greater than trade with the EU? iScotland would be bound by EU rules and unable to forge a separate deal with rUK.

4. Under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty, new entrants have to adhere to Schengen. That means border controls with England. Is the Scottish public ready for that?

5. What will be the cost of an iScotland becoming an EU member in terms of contributions to Brussels as well as the cost of setting up a 'hard border', etc. etc.?

6. What will be the additional costs of providing defence and funding for new government departments and embassies around the world?

Scotland may have voted Remain but that does not mean they will vote for independence unless there are some very good answers to these questions.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,348,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Scotland may have voted Remain but that does not mean they will vote for independence unless there are some very good answers to these questions.
The Brexit referendum showed that questions don't have to be answered in order to get results.

In the end, similar questions are asked about the future relationship between the UK and the EU and no one seems to care to answer them.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:41 AM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,930,915 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
The Brexit referendum showed that questions don't have to be answered in order to get results.

In the end, similar questions are asked about the future relationship between the UK and the EU and no one seems to care to answer them.
There are some differences .....

1. Net fiscal transfers go from the UK to the EU and not the other way around.

2. The UK already has its own currency.

3. The issue of free trade with the EU remains an issue and will be the subject of negotiations.

4. The UK is not in Schengen and already has a hard border with the rest of the EU (except Ireland).

5. The cost to the UK of being an EU member is known.

6. UK governmental and diplomatic institutions are already in place.
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