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Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 4 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,185 posts, read 13,469,799 times
Reputation: 19513
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1
Russian savages panic as the UK and USA send more advanced weapons to assist Ukraine. The UK is sending Brimstone missiles. The USA is sending Phoenix Ghost drones.
Extract from the speech to Parliament made by British Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace on Monday 25th April 2022.
Quote:
Originally Posted by British Parliament (25th April 2022)
It is our assessment that approximately 15,000 Russian personnel have been killed during their offensive. Alongside the death toll are the equipment losses. In total, a number of sources suggest that to date over 2,000 armoured vehicles have been destroyed or captured. This includes at least 530 tanks, 530 Armoured Personnel Carriers and 560 Infantry Fighting Vehicles. Russia has also lost over 60 helicopters and fighter jets.
The offensive that was supposed to take a maximum of a week has now taken weeks.
Last week Russia admitted that the Slava-class cruiser Moskva has sunk – the second key naval asset that they have lost since invading – significantly weakening their ability to bring their maritime assets to bear from the Black Sea.
As I said, Mr Speaker, in my last statement, Russia has so far failed in nearly every one of its objectives. In recognition of this failure, the Russian high command has regrouped, reinforced, and changed focus to securing the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts. A failure of the Russian Ministry of Defence command and control at all levels has meant they have now appointed one overall commander - General Dvornikov. At the start of this conflict Russia had committed over 120 battalion tactical groups, approximately 65% of its entire ground combat strength. As of now we assess that over 25% of these have been rendered not combat effective.
Ukraine, Mr Speaker, is an inspiration to us all. Their brave people have never stopped fighting for their land. They have endured indiscriminate bombardment, war crimes and overwhelming military aggression. But they have stood firm, galvanised the international community and beaten back the army of Russia in the North and the North-East.
Extract from the speech to Parliament made by British Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace on Monday 25th April 2022.
If this is all true, why not force a peace settlement? Instead of shipping more weapons to Ukraine and watch Ukraine destroyed, why not offer a olive branch to Putin?
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 4 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,185 posts, read 13,469,799 times
Reputation: 19513
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
If this is all true, why not force a peace settlement? Instead of shipping more weapons to Ukraine and watch Ukraine destroyed, why not offer a olive branch to Putin?
Negotiations with Putin have been fruitless, however the option is there if he wishes to engage.
In terms of the French, they have never been Pro-NATO, and they left NATO's Central Command in 1965 and did not rejoin until 2009.
The French do not like US interference in Europe, and would much prefer a stronger European Defence Force.
If this is all true, why not force a peace settlement? Instead of shipping more weapons to Ukraine and watch Ukraine destroyed, why not offer a olive branch to Putin?
Pfffft...
'olive branch'?
Putin seized Crimea.
Putin fomented insurrections in the east, including sending in Russian troops for a time.
Putin invaded Ukraine.
And it is incumbent on the West to extend an 'olive branch'?
Hardly.
Yet you want the West to force (your word) a peace settlement? You mean, of course, that you want the West to force Ukraine to surrender to Russian whims. To accept having portions of its country seized. To accept the systemic rape and murder of its people. To accept wanton bombardments targeting its non-combatants. To accept a puppet regime.
Be honest - if Putin rolled into the Baltic States tomorrow, you'd be on here fluffing Putin and demanding that the West stop 'provoking' him.
It's weird how some people choose the most repugnant hills to die upon.
It would be none too soon, as the US recently declared it was ramping up support, in order to wear down the Russian military. It would be good to avoid a confrontation between the US & Russia.
Even so, I'll believe it when I see it re: this joint declaration.
Putin seized Crimea.
Putin fomented insurrections in the east, including sending in Russian troops for a time.
Putin invaded Ukraine.
And it is incumbent on the West to extend an 'olive branch'?
Hardly.
Yet you want the West to force (your word) a peace settlement? You mean, of course, that you want the West to force Ukraine to surrender to Russian whims. To accept having portions of its country seized. To accept the systemic rape and murder of its people. To accept wanton bombardments targeting its non-combatants. To accept a puppet regime.
Be honest - if Putin rolled into the Baltic States tomorrow, you'd be on here fluffing Putin and demanding that the West stop 'provoking' him.
It's weird how some people choose the most repugnant hills to die upon.
She is merely pointing out that the alternative is to continue the war therefore continuing the destruction of country. It's a valid argument.
She is merely pointing out that the alternative is to continue the war therefore continuing the destruction of country. It's a valid argument.
No, it's not a valid argument. That's the equivalent of saying that if the US started a war in Canada and bombed entire cities out of existence Canada should offer the US an olive branch.
No, it's not a valid argument. That's the equivalent of saying that if the US started a war in Canada and bombed entire cities out of existence Canada should offer the US an olive branch.
How many dead Ukrainian children are worth continuing this fight? How many destroyed cities are worth continuing this fight?
Poland surrendered in Sept. 1939 when they couldn't win. Belgium surrendered in October 1914 and May 1940. France surrendered in June 1940. Go back further - 1763, France surrendered to England and lost their Canada colonies. 1812, France surrendered to Russia. 1864, Denmark surrendered to Prussia.
They didn't surrender because the opponents were right, they surrendered to avoid heavy civilian loses.
There is always a calculation done on the cost of war.
War isn't fought on principles of right and wrong.
War is only fought when a country can limited structural damage and civilians loses.
If you can't limited the infrastructure damage and civilian loses, you sue for peace.
No, it's not a valid argument. That's the equivalent of saying that if the US started a war in Canada and bombed entire cities out of existence Canada should offer the US an olive branch.
You're thinking emotionally. In every conflict there must be a peace agreement. War just determines your leverage. If you're the Ukrainian leader and you're looking at thousands of more deaths, if you could prevent these loses by signing an agreement (which doesn't have to be unfavorable to you by the way) you owe it to the people to consider that option? Also, the tide of war can shift, so there is risk in your leverage stalling. And yes, the U.S has waged war on other countries unjustifiably and extended an olive branch after the destruction. The U.S. Mexican war is a good example.
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