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That's like saying that Italy and Roman Empire are the same thing since both their capitals are in Rome. Ukraine descends from Kievan Rus, but so does Russia and Belarus, Ukraine doesn't hold a monopoly on that heritage. Also, back then the Ukrainian language didn't even exist and neither did Russian or Belarussian for that matter. The language that was spoken was Old East Slavic aka словеньскыи ꙗзыкъ (slovenĭskyi jazykŭ), although by the 12th to 13th centuries distinguishable dialects started to form between the separate principalities and modern Russian formed from a convergence of the Novgorodian dialect in the North and the Southern dialects around Ryzan.
Here is an excerpt from the Primary chronicles that was written in 1110 in Kyiv.
Original: Се повѣсти времѧньных лѣт ‧ ѿкꙋдꙋ єсть пошла рꙋскаꙗ земѧ ‧ кто въ києвѣ нача первѣє кнѧжит ‧ и ѿкꙋдꙋ рꙋскаꙗ землѧ стала єсть .
How nice to read Old Slavic! You made my day, grega! What a pleasant surprise.
That's like saying that Italy and Roman Empire are the same thing since both their capitals are in Rome. Ukraine descends from Kievan Rus, but so does Russia and Belarus, Ukraine doesn't hold a monopoly on that heritage. Also, back then the Ukrainian language didn't even exist and neither did Russian or Belarussian for that matter. The language that was spoken was Old East Slavic aka словеньскыи ꙗзыкъ (slovenĭskyi jazykŭ), although by the 12th to 13th centuries distinguishable dialects started to form between the separate principalities and modern Russian formed from a convergence of the Novgorodian dialect in the North and the Southern dialects around Ryzan.
Here is an excerpt from the Primary chronicles that was written in 1110 in Kyiv.
Original: Се повѣсти времѧньных лѣт ‧ ѿкꙋдꙋ єсть пошла рꙋскаꙗ земѧ ‧ кто въ києвѣ нача первѣє кнѧжит ‧ и ѿкꙋдꙋ рꙋскаꙗ землѧ стала єсть |~
(Se pověsti vremjan'nyx lět, otkudu jest' pošla ruskaja zemja, kto v kijevě nača pervěje knjažit, i otkudu ruskaja zemlja stala jest'.
Russian: Это повести прошлых лет, откуда пошла русскaя земля, кто в Киеве начал первым княжить, и откуда русская земля стала быть.
(Èto povesti prošlyh let, otkuda pošla russkaja zemlja, kto v Kieve načal pervym knjažitʹ, i otkuda russkaja zemlja stala bytʹ.)
Ukrainian: Це повісті минулих літ, звідки пішла Руська земля, хто в Києві почав перший княжити, і звідки Руська земля стала бути.
(Ce povisti mynulyx lit, zvidky pišla Rus’ka zemlja, xto v Kyjevi počav peršyj knjažyty, i zvidky Rus’ka zemlja stala buty.)
Belarussian: Вось аповесці мінулых гадоў: адкуль пайшла руская зямля, хто ў Кіеве першым пачаў княжыць, і адкуль руская зямля паўстала.
(Vos' apoviesci minułych gadoŭ: adkuł' pajšła ruskaja ziamla, chto ŭ Kijevie pieršym pačaŭ kniažyc', i adkuł' ruskaja ziamla paŭstała.)
English: These are the narratives of bygone years regarding the origin of the land of Rus', the first princes of Kiev, and from what source the land of Rus' had its beginning.
As a descendant of Eastern Bloc countries, thank you for so richly demonstrating why Russian language is so unpopular in Eastern Bloc countries. You are literally muscling into this thread and hijacking it to force your language and history narrative down everyone's gullet.
Way to read a room
How unfair, that the world doesn't acknowledge Rus linguistic superiority. Along with all their other superiorities.
As a descendant of Eastern Bloc countries, thank you for so richly demonstrating why Russian language is so unpopular in Eastern Bloc countries. You are literally muscling into this thread and hijacking it to force your language and history narrative down everyone's gullet.
Way to read a room
How unfair, that the world doesn't acknowledge Rus linguistic superiority. Along with all their other superiorities.
Dude chill out, what is your issue with me? Is there something i said specifically that triggered you? I honestly don’t even know how to respond to you because that is not all what I think. I suppose the conversation has gotten a bit off topic, but that’s only because the original question was already answered and everyone came to a consensus that the Russian language has lost its prestige and relevancy as an international language. Sorry for over sharing my thoughts you can have the room now.
As a descendant of Eastern Bloc countries, thank you for so richly demonstrating why Russian language is so unpopular in Eastern Bloc countries. You are literally muscling into this thread and hijacking it to force your language and history narrative down everyone's gullet.
Way to read a room
How unfair, that the world doesn't acknowledge Rus linguistic superiority. Along with all their other superiorities.
When russians try to convince eastern europeans "e" is pronounced as "ye", same effect as a Roman mispronouncing "r" (hilarious the Monty Pythons even thought it lol I bet it's a sarcasm given the likely very obvious R that had existed in Latin thorough the ages):
Location: Segovia, central Spain, 1230 m asl, Csb Mediterranean with strong continental influence, 40º43 N
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1
I am learning Russian and I live in Australia. Russia is very far from Australia. I find the Russian language a beautiful language. I have always been interested in Russian culture and history and that is a real motivator of learning Russian. Plus Russian speakers are found everywhere. An example in my last overseas trip which was Bali, it was common encountering Russian speakers. It was the same when I was in Thailand too. In fact one of the hotels I stayed at most people were from Russia and Ukraine. BTW learning a language such as Russian is equipping yourself with a tool you can use to communicate with others, expand your knowledge of the world, and potentially expand your skillset.
The politics of Russian is not a factor of my desire to learn Russian.
BTW I am also been learning for years another language which I was told was not useful which is Japanese. I could have taken their advice, but I choose not to. BTW there is no such thing as a useless language to learn.
Eastern Europe has masses of Ukranians and the Ukrainians are much more likely to know Russian than English. Communicating in a language they already know does certainly help them.
I agree. I don't speak Russian, but for those foreigners who love Russian language - even not for getting better jobs but for fun - the invasion of Ukraine shouldn't be a reason to stop learning Russian.
I strongly disagree the Russian invasion of Ukraine, yet I wouldn't stop my son for start learning Russian if he wants so.
There is an extensive network of Russian-language schools in Estonia, i.e. schools where Russian is the language of instruction. True, it has decreased significantly compared to the past. For example, in 1991, 37% of schools had Russian as the language of instruction. Currently, there are 13.4% of schools with Russian as the language of instruction. These are almost all state and municipal schools, because the share of private schools in Estonia is very small.
This issue of Russian schools has caused grumbling by nationalist politicians. The government currently in power has adopted the direction that it is hoped to switch to Estonian-language education in 2030. However, this is only a plan. Nationalist politicians are not satisfied. All the more so because in the neighboring countries, the rates of completing Russian-language education are much more radical. As far as I have understood, in Latvia, from 2025, Russian-language education will no longer be provided at all, neither in public schools nor, probably, in private schools.
Today I read in the media that in Latvia there is even an intention to stop teaching Russian as a second foreign language in Latvian-speaking schools and that only one of the official languages of the European Union countries will remain as a second foreign language there. The question is, of course, where they will find so many teachers of French, etc EU languages.
In short, I think that in the future there will be many more arguments and endless debates in my country about these Russian schools here.
although by the 12th to 13th centuries distinguishable dialects started to form between the separate principalities and modern Russian formed from a convergence of the Novgorodian dialect in the North and the Southern dialects around Ryzan.
And Chernigov. It seems that one of the old main dialects of Russian language comes from the territory of Ukraine. As well as the general colonization of NorthEastern Rus' (Russia) .
It's great that the modern state borders have preserved the outlines of the borders of dialects 800 years ago!
Here is another map, I edited the colors to make them contrast more as the original map it was harder to distinguish between the dialects for each language group.
And here is the language tree of the east Slavic languages as well.
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What a pleasant surprise.
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