Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Just a quick note before we dive in: In this article, I’m using “genetics” as a catch-all term for all of the factors that have worked together to shape your responsiveness to training as an adult"
"On top of different versions of genes, you can also have varying numbers of the same gene. For example, the gene that codes for salivary amylase – an enzyme that starts the digestion of starches as you chew – is the same in almost everyone, but different people vary in how many copies of the gene they have. The more copies of the gene you have, the lower your obesity risk is. The people with the fewest copies (fewer than 4) have an 8x higher obesity risk than the people with the most copies (more than 9). People with more salivary amylase genes and higher salivary amylase are able to break down more starches as they chew, which may help them feel satisfied sooner when eating and allow for better blood sugar and insulin regulation."
"In one study, 585 people trained their non-dominant arm for 12 weeks. The study involved 6 sets of curls and triceps extensions, building from 12rm loads to 6rm loads over the course of the study (linear periodization). It wasn’t explicitly stated, but I’m assuming the training sessions were only once per week. On average, the participants’ biceps got about 19% bigger and their 1rm biceps curl increased by about 54%. However, the range of responses was huge. Several people’s biceps actually got slightly smaller (even though they were untrained at the start of the study), while one person’s got 59.3% larger. The variability in strength gains was even larger, from several people not gaining any strength at all, to one person increasing their 1rm biceps curl by 250%."
"After training, they split the 66 subjects into three groups: “nonresponders,” “modest responders,” and “extreme responders.” The nonresponders and extreme responders were the quarter of participants who gained the least and most amount of muscle (17 per group), while the modest responders were in the middle one-half (32 people). On average, the nonresponders’ muscle fibers didn’t get meaningfully bigger or smaller. The modest responders’ muscle fibers got about 28% bigger on average. Not too shabby for 16 weeks of training. The extreme responders’ muscle fibers grew 58% on average. They got roughly twice the results of the modest responders."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Assuming that person’s average muscle fiber cross-sectional area was near the extreme responders’ group mean to begin with, that would mean his/her muscle fibers got 75-80% larger in only 16 weeks."
Graphs showing differences in muscle and strength gains between test subjects:
According to this research, at least 10-15% of lifters made unremarkable progress meaning that even though they made gains it wasn't impressive enough to amount to that much, and another 10-15% literally made almost no gains.
And fitness elitists say genetics don't matter that much and that people who make lesser gains are just being lazy. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
Just admit it. Everything about achieving advanced levels of fitness (that is, going beyond merely being healthy/in shape) is about having the right genetics. People with good genes will grow easily while less lucky people will either see merely so so results at best or make barely any meaningful progress. Being good at fitness is 70% nature and 30% nurture.
Does this mean you should not exercise? No, there are still other good reasons to do it than just vanity. But still, just ****ing lol at all the genetic denialists who keep ignoring science and pretend it's all just a matter of effort.
I really hope that you are lifting for other reasons than just dem gainz because there is a realistic chance that if you aren't you are wasting your time.
"You need to put a lot of time and effort into training (with a good attitude and high expectations) before you can blame genetics for your lack of progress."
This gets lost on a lot of people. Most people don't train consistently for a long enough period of time. You really have to be in health/fitness for the long game. i.e., You can't train on a bro split for 3 months, stop lifting for a month, go back to it for 2 months, stop for a couple weeks, then do a different program your personal trainer gave you for another 2 months, undereat the whole time, and then complain about your lack of good genetics for weight training when you've seen no appreciable size increase and paltry strength gains.
Here's another quote from Greg from a different article:
"If you assume you’ve got bad genetics, then you’re doomed to fail regardless of what your true potential is. If you assume you’ve got genetics on your side, then you may be proven wrong, but you may get farther than you originally thought possible."
"You need to put a lot of time and effort into training (with a good attitude and high expectations) before you can blame genetics for your lack of progress."
This gets lost on a lot of people. Most people don't train consistently for a long enough period of time. You really have to be in health/fitness for the long game. i.e., You can't train on a bro split for 3 months, stop lifting for a month, go back to it for 2 months, stop for a couple weeks, then do a different program your personal trainer gave you for another 2 months, undereat the whole time, and then complain about your lack of good genetics for weight training when you've seen no appreciable size increase and paltry strength gains.
Here's another quote from Greg from a different article:
"If you assume you’ve got bad genetics, then you’re doomed to fail regardless of what your true potential is. If you assume you’ve got genetics on your side, then you may be proven wrong, but you may get farther than you originally thought possible."
You gotta have a good attitude, be in it for your health, and learn to love the process.
What you are saying is correct. A lot of people just give up before they have invested proper time. 100% true. My point was merely that genetics DO play a massive role and that the fitness elitists and genetic denialists are wrong.
What you are saying is correct. A lot of people just give up before they have invested proper time. 100% true. My point was merely that genetics DO play a massive role and that the fitness elitists are genetic denialists are wrong.
100% agree. Where I disagreed with you in another thread was because I thought you were implying that, due to genetic differences, everyone needs a customized training program. I disagreed with that notion, thinking of the beginner who isn't going to know how well they respond to anything. Such a person should train using one of the basic proven training programs. Most people are beginners and can't self-diagnose what training (frequency, volume, rep schemes, periodization, etc.) they respond well to. And honestly, they shouldn't really attempt to do so until they've at least been training hard and consistently for a couple years.
Genetics play no "massive role." Genetics plays a minor role. I don't care what nerds in some lab think that never ran miles or never pumped iron.
Funny how even the greatest of athletes all have personal trainers. Actually, all professional athletes have (pay big money for too) more nutritionists and specialized trainers than a "nobody," with no genetic gifts like me has. Why? If they were so genetically special shouldn't it be I and the average Joe with all that extra help and them with their remarkable genes just flying through into "elite" status. But yet they bust their butts 1,000 times harder than I do and have all these high paid specialist trainers around them.
I'm not saying genetics plays no role at all. I'm just saying that--save for medical problems and abnormalities--even skinny dudes can improve their physique and pack on some muscle mass. I don't care if for some of us that means it takes 3 times longer to put on 3 pounds of muscle than another guy with genetics that allows him to pack on muscle mass faster.
Reducing percentage of body fat and/or increase percentage of lean muscle mass is more analogous to the genetics of Irish, mulattos, and blacks laying out under the blazing sun, than it is to height and eye color. I burn under the sun no where near as fast or likely as most white people (I'm a brown skinned mulatto), but I still tan darker every summer and if I were left days naked under the blazing sun rays I would sun burn. No "genetics" is going to stop that. Not even on the blackest dude.
And so... skinny dudes can get as big as this dude in the video (who ironically was physical therapist for a professional baseball team I think).
So, for comparison and contrast. These two men of very different body sizes/types.
One is a very small man the other is a very big man.
Some skinny dude, especially if he is short, is genetically limited in how big he can get. He is unlikely to ever get as massive as the big man in this video. But so what. That does not mean he can not improve his own physique and gain muscle mass and weight on his own frame.
MMA star Anthony Petitis (spelling?), not in that video, does not just train at his MMA gym but goes to another place where he had a separate endurance coach or something. And he lives in the Midwest but pays for a nutrionist for himself and this nutrionist I believe lives in New Jersey. Why go through any of that if genes magically makes the champion and man?
A look into what goes into building and sustaining Anthony Pettis as a professional athlete. There is no reliance on "pure genetics" and then a retreat behind a TV screen while guzzling lots of soda and stuffing the face with bags of popcorn.
YouTube videos capture him lifting free weights as well as working on machines with weights. So, if in fact he no longer lifts weights he seems to have at least once did, to some lesser or greater degree.
Here’s a surprise: The body of this UFC lightweight champion was not brought to you by the weight room. “I don’t lift at all,†says Anthony Pettis, a seven-year pro who makes fist-to-flesh contact in 44 percent of the strikes he throws and boasts an impressive W-L record of 17-2. Why no weights? According to Pettis, lifting creates unnecessary bulk, and unnecessary bulk demands more blood and oxygen to sustain—two things he’d rather use to KO, not keel over during a fight.
Quote:
Days spent training per week: Up to seven. “Monday, Wednesday, and Friday are six-hour days; Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday are up to five-hour days. Then, I usually end up training on Sunday, too.â€
Quote:
Typical recovery meal: Organic chicken with tortillas, cheese, and greens. “I have a personal chef who makes me this healthy Mexican meal with organic chicken and greens. Everything is organic and clean.â€
Source from my earlier posted statement he hires a nutritionist from New Jersey
“Luckily, my daughter wasn’t with me,†Pettis said. “It was me and Serge and my nutritionist from (New) Jersey. It was his first day in town. Welcome to Milwaukee.â€
And it's either him or his MMA training organization that pays for his endurance and strength conditioning training at a completely different facility under a different business.
I think if you look at NFL players, even college football players, you will see something similar. More than one specialist paid to bring an athelete up to optimal condition in a specific area. Kind of like a single Navy SEAL and all the money the government pumps into that one individual via a slew of different specialist trainers and training camps. I think the annual budget of the small Navy SEAL organization exceeds that of that whole, huge organization of the United States Marine Corps.
You can have the best genetics on earth. But without the proper guidance, the commitment, the discipline, and increasingly today the sufficient financial backing... your genes won't get you far. A person less genetically gifted can surpass you with all the right dominoes in place.
Genetics play no "massive role." Genetics plays a minor role. I don't care what nerds in some lab think that never ran miles or never pumped iron.
Gotta love this logic. So it doesn't matter that dozens of people who had to lift in a lab controlled setting while being observed by researchers got massively different results? That's all just a massive coincidence? Plz don't insult my intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogburn
Funny how even the greatest of athletes all have personal trainers. Actually, all professional athletes have (pay big money for too) more nutritionists and specialized trainers than a "nobody," with no genetic gifts like me has. Why? If they were so genetically special shouldn't it be I and the average Joe with all that extra help and them with their remarkable genes just flying through into "elite" status. But yet they bust their butts 1,000 times harder than I do and have all these high paid specialist trainers around them.
Even without any of those things, they would still blast you out of the sky with minimal effort/training, thanks to their genetic gifts.
They use those things because they are athletes. They are training in a ultra-competitive setting where even minor differences in performance can make or break them while they are competing in their sport. Normal people can do without all of this stuff and still maximize most of their potential just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogburn
I'm not saying genetics plays no role at all. I'm just saying that--save for medical problems and abnormalities--even skinny dudes can improve their physique and pack on some muscle mass.
Yes, but "some" isn't enough to actually make the person look different. Even a person with average genetics isn't going to look like they lift while wearing cloth unless it's just a tight T-shirt or something. And even then, just barely. If you want to look like you lift while wearing cloth, you need to have high-end genetics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogburn
And so... skinny dudes can get as big as this dude in the video (who ironically was physical therapist for a professional baseball team I think).
The fact that you are using this guy as a point of reference for what people can obtain even though he is blatantly on something just goes to show how little you know. This guy is over 40 years old and yet he is very muscular and ripped year around. Just lol if you think he is natty. But even if he was, you would still need god tier genetics to look like him anyway, so my point would still stand even then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogburn
So, for comparison and contrast. These two men of very different body sizes/types.
One is a very small man the other is a very big man.
Some skinny dude, especially if he is short, is genetically limited in how big he can get. He is unlikely to ever get as massive as the big man in this video. But so what. That does not mean he can not improve his own physique and gain muscle mass and weight on his own frame.
MMA star Anthony Petitis (spelling?), not in that video, does not just train at his MMA gym but goes to another place where he had a separate endurance coach or something. And he lives in the Midwest but pays for a nutrionist for himself and this nutrionist I believe lives in New Jersey. Why go through any of that if genes magically makes the champion and man?
Uhm, both of those guys are on/used steroids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogburn
You can have the best genetics on earth. But without the proper guidance, the commitment, the discipline, and increasingly today the sufficient financial backing... your genes won't get you far. A person less genetically gifted can surpass you with all the right dominoes in place.
Every time you post it's literally the same old negative stuff again and again. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. But perhaps if you get off the computer and try different things just MAYBE you will start to build a decent body.
Every time you post it's literally the same old negative stuff again and again. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. But perhaps if you get off the computer and try different things just MAYBE you will start to build a decent body.
Nah, much easier to just blame it on "genetics" and ***** about it on the internet. Then it's not his fault he's failing....
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
