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Silly me, I thought ab exercises were designed to help you develop better posture, reduce back pain, and improve balance- all of which we need regardless of whether we have rock hard, defined abs.
I agree, but... proper Zercher squats are a marvelous exception. Shameless plug for my favorite exercise
I do a bit of abs, and I try to use resistance rather than endless crunches.
I view compound lifts as ab-optional. You can really slack your abs (greater risk of injury) during compounds, or you can flex them hard and watch the bar magically explode upwards, though it's hard and a ton of pressure. Voluntary contraction during movement is under-rated, apparent identical movements are not created equal. They may look the same, but different things can be going on under the hood.
Zerchers are awesome, and I agree with the bolded, especially in regards to the valsalva maneuver, this is a great way to brace the core while protecting the spine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Returning2USA
I do ALL of the above exercises you mentioned inside (parentheses) and *none* of them work the abs enough.
Strong abs are needed....to do the above exercises....not the other way around.
The slight work the abs get by the above exercises is minimal in the first one and largely nonexistent in the latter 3.
And never forget the obliques.
I agree with you and Michael Way to the extent that direct ab work through some range of motion is ideal, but (anecdotally) I wanted to say that I was on a steady diet of double kettlebell front squats and farmer's, racked, goblet and suitcase carries for a few months (along with a few other compound exercises) and my core strength went up tremendously. In fact my core felt like a sheet of muscle, and exercises done in the program that followed (like Turkish get ups and overhead presses) felt much easier as a result. For the record I believe there is quite a bit of core strengthening and activation during barbell overhead press/jerk and (especially) barbell front squat work. So while the ideal is to strengthen through a wide range of motion, I don't believe those exercises, especially the carries, hold minimal value.
I'm female and no body builder, for sure. But I've worked out off and on for my entire adult life and learned a thing or two about my body.
Doing exercises that include core strength is different, for me, than doing ab-specific exercises. Planks, squats, etc., generally strengthen the core. But they don't target my abs like crunches & other ab-specific exercises. Strong abs are needed to support the back and provide balance and stability to the body. That's very important as a person ages, in particular. When I do ab-specific exercises after not doing them for a while, those muscles will get sore, even though I may have been doing other exercises that include core strengthening. Which indicates those particular muscles weren't being worked out enough, or in the same way, or maybe at all. So there is a difference...to my body, anyway.
I just smile at the youngens that try to replicate that guy in the gym with the six pack and keep flexing their spine over and over and over. They all inevitably end up with back problems. It's not a matter of "if" they'll have back pain, it's simply a matter of "when". And of course you can't talk to them because they know it all.
Listen to your physical therapist, Navy Show. He knows what he is talking about. Neutral spine core exercises are the way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow
Planks, Side Planks, Planks on an exercize ball (they love planks),modified crunches, bicycle crunches, scizzors making sure back is flat on the floor (no arching), roll downs. Also carrying this heavy weight with a handle (can use a dumb bell - start with right hand and walk down the gym and back, and then switch to the left hand and walk down the gym and back) and repeat for several sets. That strengthens the whole center core area.
Also goblet squats work the core without loading the lower back. Core is more than just abs. It is also the glutes area as well.
There were some fluff things I never adopted. (cat stretches, etc).
They always stressed a neutral spine and bracing whenever you work out.
I do miss the situps. I hated doing them but they were killer and exhausting to do. I was the queen of situps on a slantboard. Now I am the zero of situps. I knew they were not the best for abs but I liked doing them because of the difficulty. But they were one of the exercises that a few years ago would create terrible back pain the day after doing them (after years of being ok doing them). They were probably my worse culprit of back pain.
Last edited by blameyourself; 01-14-2023 at 06:17 AM..
Silly me, I thought ab exercises were designed to help you develop better posture, reduce back pain, and improve balance- all of which we need regardless of whether we have rock hard, defined abs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cent0089
Main reason for training abs is to strengthen your core, which is one of most important muscle group.
Compound exercises do these things too? (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with exercises that target abs; just that they're optional)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20
That's called losing weight. Ab exercises don't do any of that if you're fat.
This. Getting abs is 90% about how much you eat and 10% exercise.
A man with 10-12% bodyfat who has never been to a gym in his life will visible abs. A 20% bodyfat man who does ab exercises everyday won't have visible abs.
Compound exercises do these things too? (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with exercises that target abs; just that they're optional)
This. Getting abs is 90% about how much you eat and 10% exercise.
A man with 10-12% bodyfat who has never been to a gym in his life will visible abs. A 20% bodyfat man who does ab exercises everyday won't have visible abs.
The last part of your comment is taken out of context. RamenAddict is completely on point as are some of the earlier comments in this thread. You appear to be way too caught up on aesthetics. A heavier person can certainly have strong core musculature. Whether or not they are visible is irrelevant.
Last edited by blameyourself; 01-14-2023 at 10:46 AM..
Yes, they are unwarranted. The abs are one muscle set that can never be too strong. Work them intelligently however, 1000 crunches a day are only gonna give you a bad back.
Yes, they are unwarranted. The abs are one muscle set that can never be too strong. Work them intelligently however, 1000 crunches a day are only gonna give you a bad back.
True. You can do hundreds of ab crunches at a time, but it doesn't do any more for the abs after the initial few it takes to target the abs (the # of crunches depends on how weak the person's abs are). They will hurt my back after a certain number of them, though. I also do standing up exercises to target the abs in a milder way that's easier on the back.
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