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stromboldt, I'm curious as to what field you went into as well. My field, education, realistically starts at 25K or so for a new hire - though ND is at the very bottom for pay for teachers in the nation.
stromboldt, I'm curious as to what field you went into as well. My field, education, realistically starts at 25K or so for a new hire - though ND is at the very bottom for pay for teachers in the nation.
I went into Computer Science and work at a technology firm located in the metropolitan area.
Last edited by stromboldt; 11-28-2009 at 06:39 PM..
Are state/property taxes less in Fargo (ND) or Moorhead (SD)
I assume you meant Moorhead MN...
But MN property taxes are lower than ND...but MN income tax is higher. For most years it is a wash....but with budget troubles in MN property taxes may be on the rise and ND property taxes a bit on the decline due its state surplus. I live in East Grand Forks MN across the river from Grand Forks ND and our property tax is about 40 pct of what it would be in Grand Forks but income taxes higher.
stromboldt, I'm curious as to what field you went into as well. My field, education, realistically starts at 25K or so for a new hire - though ND is at the very bottom for pay for teachers in the nation.
[Mod cut] here in NJ, Engineers start mid 50's... engineers I started with that had Master's degrees and 5 years of experience were around $80k... I don't buy someone in ND, 2 years out of college, is making anywhere near $75k. Sounds to me like internet boasting. If he'd said high 40's or even $50k I'd believe it though.
Teaching pays horribly... maybe you should check out the NJEA. It's a great gig at least until the Governor kills it *crosses fingers... go Gov go!*
Last edited by ElkHunter; 04-14-2010 at 09:45 AM..
Reason: We're not going to start accusations.
Fair enough... technology and pharma sales pay fantastic... but then the Masters degree is sort of pointless... and a CS degree isn't exactly the best degree to get you into either of those sorts of positions... CS is too much keyboard jockey and not enough technology junkie. If he's making his living in sales and doing well at it, it has little to nothing to do with his education.
I'd like to share my prospective on Fargo as a single man going on my fourth year here after reading what others have had to say about the town. I'm 30 years old, grew up in a military family, and I'm also ex-military myself. I've lived many places, am very cultured, and have a good prospective for comparing Fargo to other places. I've lived a total of 12 different places in my life. 9 years in the North, 7 years in the South, 6 years in the West, 3 in Germany, and going on 6 years in the Midwest. I've lived in the middle of nowhere and in bustling city environments.
I can back up most of the positives that have been mentioned by others such as the very low crime, low cost of living, economy, etc. The area is very clean and I like to say most of the town was just built yesterday. What "traffic" means is relative it seems. Having lived in many traffic congested areas, most notably Washington D.C., I can tell you there is no traffic in Fargo by that standard by any stretch of the imagination.
Of all the great things about living here there are two very big, negative, elephants in the room that are impossible to ignore. The weather and the social environment. The weather is just as wretched as everyone has commented on, so I won't go too in detail about that except to add that the seasonal depression here will make anything you are down about feel that much worse. I have a horrible bout of depression once a year living here like nothing I've experienced anywhere else. "Cabin Fever", SAD, whatever it is- it's horrible. I've also found that instead of getting more accustomed to the weather every year, I get more aggravated with it.
What I can weigh in on, and bring a good prospective to, is the social environment here based on my experiences. Generally speaking, of course. The people are definitely kind, but they aren't friendly. They are very clannish by nature and do act as if they already have enough friends. In my time living here I've developed several acquaintances, but the only people I've found friendship with were from out of state. This is unique to every other place I've lived in my life. If you bring life experience from other parts of the country it's really hard to find common ground with native people here.
Also to comment on the "night life". There is no night life in Fargo do not be misled. I've lived in Washington D.C., VA Beach, Las Vegas, San Diego, and Chicago. I can even name a few middle of nowhere towns with better nightlife than Fargo. Fargo has a few clubs and plenty of bars but the overall scene is depressing at best. There are a lot of drunks in Fargo, and if you're someone who likes an occasional good time out as opposed to an alcoholic lifestyle, good luck.
A previous poster also hit it on the head by saying this is a town that tries to have a big city attitude and it doesn't work. Being a thinker, the best idea I have to explain it is that this place is so secluded the social networks are formed by people who get their ideas from TV, movies, and music then try their best to emulate what they see here in Fargo. The result is a completely fake attitude. Ironically, when a genuine person tries to get a foot in the door socially, who's actually from a big city, you are mostly met with a high school-ish "shun" type attitude because you cannot identify with the fake big city attitude everyone else is busy impressing each other with. It's as if most of the young people here stop maturing somewhere around 15~19 and the result is a bunch teenagers stuck in 20, 30, and yes even 40 year old people.
Also on nightlife: females. I'm a good looking man, fun to be around, personable, outgoing, have a great career, make good money, and as I've mentioned I'm no stranger to the nightlife scene. Generally, good looking females in this town are almost exclusively stuck up with no reason to be. I don't believe there are any good reasons to be a stuck up person, but what I mean is that most places I've lived good looking women are much more down to earth than here, smarter, more substance, and funner to be around. The ones in other places who are actually stuck up, it's usually because they are rich, come from a rich family, or some other such reason they think they are a notch above the rest of humanity. Here, some female who has a little bit of physical appeal thinks she's Paris Hilton. She'll act stuck up on a man indiscriminately while getting in her beat up Mazda sedan that's 10 years old after walking out of her average apartment building. I want to scream, "You're doing it wrong!!".
I've been out with plenty of women since living here in spite of the odds stacked against me (story of my life), but all in all I can say as a single man you are better living somewhere else to expend your energy meeting women. Going on my 4th year here I seriously doubt I'll find a woman for anything long term. That's definitely not to say there aren't some here and I believe there are.
Also, Fargo is the most liberal city in ND. There were comments about what a conservative place Fargo is and maybe that's true with the church going population. If you're conservative and not a church goer like I am, again good luck finding people you have things in common with. People around my age are very liberal here another reason I dislike Fargo overall. It's very interesting to meet all of these liberal experts on human affairs who have never lived outside the borders of a state that enjoys the benefits of an overall conservative, 95% white, geographically isolated state buffered by basically every other state in the union .
All in all I am glad I came here I hooked up with a great company and had a lot of good learning experiences. If I was married man I might be inclined to set up roots here, but then again maybe not.
I'd like to share my prospective on Fargo as a single man going on my fourth year here after reading what others have had to say about the town. I'm 30 years old, grew up in a military family, and I'm also ex-military myself. I've lived many places, am very cultured, and have a good prospective for comparing Fargo to other places. I've lived a total of 12 different places in my life. 9 years in the North, 7 years in the South, 6 years in the West, 3 in Germany, and going on 6 years in the Midwest. I've lived in the middle of nowhere and in bustling city environments.
I can back up most of the positives that have been mentioned by others such as the very low crime, low cost of living, economy, etc. The area is very clean and I like to say most of the town was just built yesterday. What "traffic" means is relative it seems. Having lived in many traffic congested areas, most notably Washington D.C., I can tell you there is no traffic in Fargo by that standard by any stretch of the imagination.
Of all the great things about living here there are two very big, negative, elephants in the room that are impossible to ignore. The weather and the social environment. The weather is just as wretched as everyone has commented on, so I won't go too in detail about that except to add that the seasonal depression here will make anything you are down about feel that much worse. I have a horrible bout of depression once a year living here like nothing I've experienced anywhere else. "Cabin Fever", SAD, whatever it is- it's horrible. I've also found that instead of getting more accustomed to the weather every year, I get more aggravated with it.
What I can weigh in on, and bring a good prospective to, is the social environment here based on my experiences. Generally speaking, of course. The people are definitely kind, but they aren't friendly. They are very clannish by nature and do act as if they already have enough friends. In my time living here I've developed several acquaintances, but the only people I've found friendship with were from out of state. This is unique to every other place I've lived in my life. If you bring life experience from other parts of the country it's really hard to find common ground with native people here.
Also to comment on the "night life". There is no night life in Fargo do not be misled. I've lived in Washington D.C., VA Beach, Las Vegas, San Diego, and Chicago. I can even name a few middle of nowhere towns with better nightlife than Fargo. Fargo has a few clubs and plenty of bars but the overall scene is depressing at best. There are a lot of drunks in Fargo, and if you're someone who likes an occasional good time out as opposed to an alcoholic lifestyle, good luck.
A previous poster also hit it on the head by saying this is a town that tries to have a big city attitude and it doesn't work. Being a thinker, the best idea I have to explain it is that this place is so secluded the social networks are formed by people who get their ideas from TV, movies, and music then try their best to emulate what they see here in Fargo. The result is a completely fake attitude. Ironically, when a genuine person tries to get a foot in the door socially, who's actually from a big city, you are mostly met with a high school-ish "shun" type attitude because you cannot identify with the fake big city attitude everyone else is busy impressing each other with. It's as if most of the young people here stop maturing somewhere around 15~19 and the result is a bunch teenagers stuck in 20, 30, and yes even 40 year old people.
Also on nightlife: females. I'm a good looking man, fun to be around, personable, outgoing, have a great career, make good money, and as I've mentioned I'm no stranger to the nightlife scene. Generally, good looking females in this town are almost exclusively stuck up with no reason to be. I don't believe there are any good reasons to be a stuck up person, but what I mean is that most places I've lived good looking women are much more down to earth than here, smarter, more substance, and funner to be around. The ones in other places who are actually stuck up, it's usually because they are rich, come from a rich family, or some other such reason they think they are a notch above the rest of humanity. Here, some female who has a little bit of physical appeal thinks she's Paris Hilton. She'll act stuck up on a man indiscriminately while getting in her beat up Mazda sedan that's 10 years old after walking out of her average apartment building. I want to scream, "You're doing it wrong!!".
I've been out with plenty of women since living here in spite of the odds stacked against me (story of my life), but all in all I can say as a single man you are better living somewhere else to expend your energy meeting women. Going on my 4th year here I seriously doubt I'll find a woman for anything long term. That's definitely not to say there aren't some here and I believe there are.
Also, Fargo is the most liberal city in ND. There were comments about what a conservative place Fargo is and maybe that's true with the church going population. If you're conservative and not a church goer like I am, again good luck finding people you have things in common with. People around my age are very liberal here another reason I dislike Fargo overall. It's very interesting to meet all of these liberal experts on human affairs who have never lived outside the borders of a state that enjoys the benefits of an overall conservative, 95% white, geographically isolated state buffered by basically every other state in the union .
All in all I am glad I came here I hooked up with a great company and had a lot of good learning experiences. If I was married man I might be inclined to set up roots here, but then again maybe not.
777:
I definitely agree that somehow a certain subset of Fargoans have somehow deluded themselves into thinking that Fargo is now some type of sophisticated urban outpost. While Fargo certainly has some aspects that many other cities its size lack, it has a long way to go in many other respects. Even two generations ago, a small fraction of Fargoans had been assigned the term "Imperial Cass" for it's county's cocky attempts at domination of the outlying "underclass" of North Dakotans. As a city, Fargo has a progressive nature, but is insecure about itself. Unfortunately, that insecurity can manifest itself as "haughtiness", especially in the recent college grads that view their futures as nothing but bright.
In other cities in ND, like Bismarck, Minot, or Grand Forks, the people are less likely to be as delusional into viewing themselves as sophisticates. They know they background is modest, and in turn they are more humble and self-deprecading. Would also disagree that Fargo is the most liberal city: Grand Forks is. Fargo to its credit has a much more aggressive business climate, which fueled its growth.
Of course, all of these statements are broad generalizations, but each city in North Dakota has a distinct personality that manifests itself to a degree on its people.
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