Victoria's Secret Fashion Show

[MonaLisaVito]

Originally Posted by Mikey_NC

How about those Fruit Of The Loom Guys? I have seen commercials where they prance around in their briefs!!! Shouldn't get too uptight about Victoria's Secret lingerie as their ads are not only aimed at men...they are aimed at women wanting to look sexy for their men.

As a man who enjoys looking at the female form I too am against all these boob jobs, nip tucks, etc as they reflect vanity and ego on the part of those having these procedures done. Will women ever learn that natural is sexy and touch ups are plastic and only attract young, inexperienced guys who are driven mainly by their hormones...and old guys trying to re live their teen days?

My two cents...don't take it too seriously

OMG, the fruit of the loom guys!! That is way too funny!!

I have never seen the Victoria's Secret show on TV. Don't really care. I am a loyal buyer to their clothing though, they sell 36" length pants which I need for my long legs. I love their lingerie and I do love buying the sexy little outfits to dress sexy for my husband, especially the little santa suit lingerie and hats!! LOL

One thing I don't like is their bathing suit tops, they are so damn small, even the larges. They seem to fit the models perfectly in the magazine whose boobs are the same size as mine, but when I get the top in the mail it barely covers my you know whats (o)(o) !!

I am concerned about another thread I saw on here about child slave labor and VS. Is this true? Any confirmation on that story?

[Mojo Riley]

We will agree to disagree, but I will still strongly suggest that you read the definition of 'exploitation" and then take a gander at the world around you- whether it be movies, magazine covers, commercials, or any other popular media, and then ask yourself if you notice anything- shall we say- inequitable?

Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren

I frankly can't see how showing beautiful women in their underwear is objectifying women. I simply don't see it. Those women were in most cases wearing MORE then women do on the beach or at the pool.

As for us preferring our men respectable??? WELL, if women of the US are buying that then they are dumber then I thought. Men may not be running about on the stage in their scivies but they are the MAIN supporter of real objectifying sources like porn, phone sex lines, internet porn, dirty magazines, are MORE likely to endulge in an affair within a commited relationship, I could go on but I won't. Just how respectable is that?

A woman can be gorgeous, sexy, busty and everything else and not be objectified. These models aren't being taken advantage of and anyone of our daughters would be LUCKY to grow up with such natural beauty AND gain a position such as theirs.

No matter how seriously a woman wants to be taken, it can not be denied that women are sexual beings as well and there is nothing wrong with showing it off.

[Lindsey_Mcfarren]

Originally Posted by Mojo Riley

We will agree to disagree, but I will still strongly suggest that you read the definition of 'exploitation" and then take a gander at the world around you- whether it be movies, magazine covers, commercials, or any other popular media, and then ask yourself if you notice anything- shall we say- inequitable?

Of course its inequitable, I am not saying at all that women aren't exploited, I just don't think this particular source is the problem.

I am very much a feminist, apparently not as strong a one as you are, nothing bad in that though.

[pwright1]

I love the VS Fashion Show. The women are beautiful and the lingerie they're modeling looks amazing. If you don't want your kids to watch it then turn it off. They allow shows with lots of violence like all the CSI's. Should those type shows be on tv? Why are people making such a big deal over nothing? I know, take your kids XBOX away.

[Mojo Riley]

Originally Posted by pwright1

I love the VS Fashion Show. The women are beautiful and the lingerie they're modeling looks amazing. If you don't want your kids to watch it then turn it off. They allow shows with lots of violence like all the CSI's. Should those type shows be on tv? Why are people making such a big deal over nothing? I know, take your kids XBOX away.

Lol. Please see my original response to LM. This is honestly such a poor argument and you clearly didn't bother to read WHY it bothers people. But that's fine. Again, agree to disagree.

[pwright1]

Originally Posted by Mojo Riley

Honestly though, while women do indeed shop there for their own undergarmets, the fashion show is VERY much geared for the men, and they make no secret of that. Their biggest sponsers are beer companies! I do not think it's a healthy or desirable thing to expose young girls to. It is well known that many (most?) of their models have undergone plastic surgery. I am consistent however, and am also appalled by MTV and the vast majority of fashions geared toward young women these days.

There are many reasons why people don't want to watch it. As for your reasons, so what. If you don't want young girls watching it then it's up to the parents of these young girls to put their foot down and tell them they can't watch. It's one show that comes on late once or twice a year. Fashion has always been appalling. I'm sure when you were young fashion was just as appalling as it is today. And how on earth do you know the majority of the models had plastic surgery?

[Lindsey_Mcfarren]

Mojo, I think your message would come across alot better if you found a nicer way of putting it. You come across as rather agressive and sarcastic.

I am glad you feel strongly about supporting women in the fight to be treated equally. So many women today are happy to settle for the role that men would have us play.

[Mojo Riley]

Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren

Mojo, I think your message would come across alot better if you found a nicer way of putting it. You come across as rather agressive and sarcastic.

I am glad you feel strongly about supporting women in the fight to be treated equally. So many women today are happy to settle for the role that men would have us play.

LM, I didn't get sacrastic (and I wouldn't even call it sarcastic, but maybe irritated?) until my last post, and that's because I do have a real hard time when people come up with arguments that aren't really arguments, or else don't go to the heart of what's being discussed, or go back to a point that's already been discussed, handled, and dismissed (case in point, the arguments like "kids see worse everday," which I discussed earlier, or the argument "turn it off," when I already pointed out that a major part of the gripe lots of us have is the fact that it's broadcast in the first place when one would be hard-pressed to find a network that would air a similar show with men as the main attraction).

As for being aggressive, I think part of the problem is making a point clearly and directly, and not suffering poor arguments kindly, and you can blame law school for that If someone wanted to debate the quality of the studies which have been done on women's self-esteem for example, I would be willing to do that. But it's hard to go back in a circle and make the same points over and over again and have them willfully ignored and that *is* immensely frustrating. I realize the tone of my last post was dismissive- but going back to my original points seemed futile last night, and I was giving up on it.

Listen, I honestly *wish* that this stuff didn't bother me, but it's impossible to "unsee" once you've seen things for what they are. When you start deconstructing the everyday things in life, it's hard to treat the inequities as "wallpaper" (the way the people who perpetuate them would like us to) anymore. And this is not the first time that I've run up against a brick wall with on this issue with otherwise intelligent women. I think a large part of that is the fact that women would like to think that we've achieved what was fought for- that the battle has already been won. If that's the case, then I really have to ask why it is only women who have to demonstate their "empowement" by stripping off their clothes on film, magazines and television? Why is it that every single movie with an R rating *only* has naked women and the naked men are nowhere to be found? If public nudity (or near nudity) were so empowering, wouldn't you expect that the historical superior powers that be (in this case, men) would be fighting to get naked everywhere, at all times. You don't see that because the fact is the act of getting naked for the amusement of strangers is in no way empowering.

An essay that I read put that lame "empowerment" crap to bed by likening modern women to court jesters. The jester thinks he has the power because the king is laughing. But the king only laughs when you're amusing him, when you *earn* his approval in other words. And he can revoke that approval at any time, for any reason, and when the king is done laughing, where is all your power?

Anyway, to reiterate, I have no problem with nudity per se. Healthy, accepting, and all-inclusive portayals of human sexuality are fine by me. Sadly, these are nowhere to be found in popular US culture.

I am well aware that many women simply will not see all of this for what it is. And in case anyone missed it, VS is not the "problem" for me, but is one of the most in your face symptoms of a deeper weirdness that pervades our culture. And I think sometimes it's hardest to see what's in front of you.

I think I am proudest of my *work* on my boyfriend, his best friend and my brother. They are and have always been enlightened, liberal, and intelligent men, but they never really saw things for what they are until we started discussing it. I remember debating this very issue with my boyfriend's best friend a couple of years ago, and he (like many people I'm sure) thought I was making too much out of it. He went to see "Hostel" (for those of you unfamiliar, it's one of those ubiquitous "torture porn" films that delights in getting women naked and then slaughtering them) later that night, and when we met up after the film he said, "Jesus, I see what you're talking about now. All the naked girls was even starting to offend me!" He will now sometimes call me to ask what I think of a particular social trend, or questionable film. My boyfriend will now often catch things before I do and deconstruct them and point out to *me* what's sexist or misogynistic. My brother, who like most men his age has no problem with attractive naked women, now is ultra-sensitive to these things as well, and will point out the gratuitous use of female nudity and has come to the conclusion that it's a cheap tactic and in most cases, wholly unnecessary to the point being made.

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded post. I woke up and felt bad about my last response, and came back to rectify it. I am well aware that most people reading this will think "oh come on, it's a *fashion show* for crying out loud!" And that's fine, because if even a couple of people think a little more critically about these things next time, then I'm a happy camper.

[Beliy Plashik]

The show is fun to watch I like it. And those vs angels are a little bit thicker then the skin-thin models. They are still skinny none-less.

What is wrong with the human body?


If I had children I rather want them to watch that vs show then anything on MTV these days.