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Old 02-01-2014, 08:09 AM
 
4,899 posts, read 6,227,229 times
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For all art lovers - just watched an incredible documentary "The Rape of Europa" (2007) which chronicles
Hitlers confiscation of historic artwork throughout Europe from private collectors to major art museums.
Fascinating how the Louvre was able to save their collection as well as the heroic men and women
involved.
The US sent a team called the Monuments of Men (Allied Hero's, Nazi Thieves and the Greatest
Treasure Hunt in History).
After watching the documentary I had this question: what if Hitler was accepted to the Vienna Academy
of Fine Arts? Would that have changed that horrible chapter in history?



The Rape of Europa - About the Film Story
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:13 PM
 
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Quote:
The US sent a team called the Monuments of Men (Allied Hero's, Nazi Thieves and the Greatest
Treasure Hunt in History).
After watching the documentary I had this question: what if Hitler was accepted to the Vienna Academy
of Fine Arts? Would that have changed that horrible chapter in history?
Interesting if that state of art affairs came to pass. One can see the 'problems' with that one! And any idea what was the percentage of artworks found compared to those that were taken by Hitler's art aficionados?
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Old 02-01-2014, 07:47 PM
 
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There is no exact number of pieces seized. The only numbers given say hundreds of thousands, about 650,000 were taken
from victims, about 5000 were burned by the Nazis and there are still about 100,000 missing. Goring alone had a massive
collection. Also, The Monuments of Men returned about 5 million works (1951) of art.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
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Going to check out the book (I'd rather read than watch).

Thanks for the heads-up.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:22 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
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I've got to watch that too. There was something on the news last night about a Jewish couple who are trying to get a painting back. I think it's hanging in some museum but they insist that it used to hang in their parents home. The museum would have been dealing in stolen merchandise but the news story said the people have absolutely no way of proving that was their painting. I suppose this same story has been told over and over. The Nazis stole so much.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAhippo View Post
Going to check out the book (I'd rather read than watch).

Thanks for the heads-up.

After watching this documentary, I'll be reading the book also. Just wondering how many
pictures are in the book since the documentary not only presented many paintings and
sculptures but footage of significant historical moments, monuments before and after
the bombings, interviews of descendants, the Monuments of Men, etc....
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:17 PM
 
Location: East Coast
2,932 posts, read 5,422,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyvpotter View Post
For all art lovers - just watched an incredible documentary "The Rape of Europa" (2007) which chronicles
Thanks so much for this film recommendation! I began watching it on Netflix last night, but unfortunately I fell asleep (I was tired...not bored). Will watch the rest of it tomorrow night. Really enjoyed what I've seen so far.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:30 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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...and in this same vein, The Monuments Men will be coming to theaters this Friday (Feb. 7). Looking forward to seeing it.

True story behind 'The Monuments Men' and Nazi art looting - SFGate
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:13 PM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,619,209 times
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Quote:
There is no exact number of pieces seized. The only numbers given say hundreds of thousands, about 650,000 were taken from victims, about 5000 were burned by the Nazis and there are still about 100,000 missing. Goring alone had a massive collection. Also, The Monuments of Men returned about 5 million works (1951) of art.
Besides the ramifications of Hitler getting into the Vienna Academy I could only say where would human civilization and its practice of the arts be if the Nazis defeated the Allies? What could we have looked forward to after the destruction of books, stolen and destroyed art, murder and criminality?
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,371,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyvpotter View Post
For all art lovers - just watched an incredible documentary "The Rape of Europa" (2007) which chronicles
Hitlers confiscation of historic artwork throughout Europe from private collectors to major art museums.
Fascinating how the Louvre was able to save their collection as well as the heroic men and women
involved.
The US sent a team called the Monuments of Men (Allied Hero's, Nazi Thieves and the Greatest
Treasure Hunt in History).
After watching the documentary I had this question: what if Hitler was accepted to the Vienna Academy
of Fine Arts? Would that have changed that horrible chapter in history?



The Rape of Europa - About the Film Story
That's an interesting question and a hard one to answer.

I think that if he had been accepted to the Academy, it might have changed history.
When he lived in Vienna as a youth, before World War I, Hitler wasn't anonymous. He made his presence known to the Academy and most of the leading artists there knew him or knew of him.

Hitler was given a substantial lump sum, possibly his inheritance, given early, and he was pretty well set up financially when he arrived in Vienna, but he wasn't industrious. He would work in productive spasms, then do nothing but lie about or hang around the cafés for weeks afterward, sometimes half-heartedly trying to sell his watercolors, sometimes not. Eventually, he spent it all, but never worked very much, even when he ended up in rags and living on the streets much of the time.

Vienna at the time was the leading art center of Europe. Paris was, by then, a distant second, especially in terms of the most modern art of the time. Viennese artists like Klimpt, Egon Shiele, and the members of the Seccessionists were all the rage of Europe at the time, and Vienna was the place where all the artists of northern Europe went, or hoped to go for chances of a successful career.
The successful Austrian artists were both fabulously wealthy and incredibly influential in the art world. The money flowed in Vienna like nowhere else, and the competition among the artists was intense.

Vienna was much like 16th century Venice or London of the early 1960's. Viennese architecture, fashions, and designers all ruled for a couple of decades, and Vienna was the city that started several huge art movements, including art noveau, which were taken up world-wide.

In such a place, Hitler really never stood a chance. If he had been accepted by the Academy of Fine Arts, his artwork wouldn't have sold; it was too crude to compete with the traditional artists, and had none of the flair or the outrageousness of the Seccessionists.

But he might have landed a drafting job at an architectural firm, or may have found work as an assistant to a prominent artist, at least for a time. His work habits and personal habits were lousy, and he was a seething pile of resentment then, just as much as in later life. Basically, he was lazy and unfocused almost all the time as well.
There are ancient rumors that say he became a street prostitute off and on after he squandered his money. If it is true, this may account for his intense hatred of homosexuals, who were some of the first to go to the concentration camps. Vienna's upper crust had a lot of Jews, and they were some of the greatest art patrons. This may have been the seeds of his Jewish hatred as well.

The war really saved Hitler. His service, and winning an Iron Cross, gave his life definition and a sense of purpose that he never had before, and a legitimacy that he wanted more than anything, but was denied to him as a young artist and as a person. An illegitimate child back then always had a hard time becoming an accepted part of the elite.

Interestingly, Hitler completely abandoned art after the war. He never even doodled again for the rest of his life. I'm sure that, for him, his own art became something he loathed intensely. Stealing the best art everywhere, as much as he could take, was a very personal form of revenge for him, especially the works of those he most wanted to join when he was young.

He wasn't alone. Most of the Nazis wanted to be a part of the social elite of the pre-war era. They all stole homes, furniture, fur coats, bejeweled dresses and all the trappings of the upper class, and art was only a part of the theft. The few nobles and upper-class Nazis, such as Gohring, were either greedy or turned a blind eye to the theft.
Hitler loved to promote his chosen architects, theater people, social leaders, artists, and all to high levels in the Nazi party. I think that this, too, was his way of getting back at those who ignored or denigrated him as a young man.
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