Frame vs. CBS house near coast - relative value? (Fort Lauderdale: insurance, houses)
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We are looking to buy a house in Martin County. My husband wants to restrict our search to CBS houses, preferably built after Hurricane Andrew
(1992). His reasons are (1) better able to withstand a hurricane/built to modern building codes, (2) better resale value, (3) lower insurance.
I agree with him on all points - but am finding that frame houses and older CBS houses are a lot less expensive, at least to buy. We are looking to spend under $350K for a 4BR or 3+den. We are also hoping to stay in this house for a long time (~10 yrs).
Your thoughts? Is a new, more expensive CBS house reaaaally a better value than an older CBS house - or any frame house? If you had to concede something to get the cost down - either CBS vs. frame, or age of house - which would it be?
While newer houses are built to the newer code, you have to admit that older houses have one attribute that is undeniable -- they're still there.
In the extreme event that a maximum category storm hit your house directly, the codes and materials matter. In the course of the types of storms that normally affect us, that stuff matters very little. In the extreme, perhaps the only thing that will survive is a poured concrete bunker with a poured concrete roof like one of our members has built, so none of the other stuff matters. But, Google "hurricane categories" and read the descriptions. You'll see that it takes greater than a category 3 storm to even contemplate serious damage to any typical, well maintained house, and to the best of my knowledge, no storm greater than category 3 has hit Martin County. Martin County went from 1949 to 2004 without a hurricane hitting there. There were a total of 3 in 2004/2005, but they should be considered the anomaly.
The primary thing affecting those resale values are fear and "conventional wisdom". You can save money now, but you'll come out even when you sell. However, he's right when it comes to insurance -- some companies are not even insuring wood frame any longer. Their underwriters must hear the same "CW".
Still, one must be prepared for the worst that nature can throw at us, and one must live with one's own fears. The only possible answer is to buy that which allays your fears and makes you comfortable.
Historically, however, in a conventionally built house, the difference between wood and CBS has made little difference. If the storm is bad enough, they both get knocked down. The only storm in recent memory that was bad enough was Andrew. That happened 15 years ago and in a small percentage of Florida, but of course it could happen again to Martin County, tomorrow.
Personally, and it appears I'm joined by the vast majority of Floridians, I prefer to play the odds. It's worked for me, so far...
While newer houses are built to the newer code, you have to admit that older houses have one attribute that is undeniable -- they're still there.
In the extreme event that a maximum category storm hit your house directly, the codes and materials matter. In the course of the types of storms that normally affect us, that stuff matters very little. In the extreme, perhaps the only thing that will survive is a poured concrete bunker with a poured concrete roof like one of our members has built, so none of the other stuff matters. But, Google "hurricane categories" and read the descriptions. You'll see that it takes greater than a category 3 storm to even contemplate serious damage to any typical, well maintained house, and to the best of my knowledge, no storm greater than category 3 has hit Martin County. Martin County went from 1949 to 2004 without a hurricane hitting there. There were a total of 3 in 2004/2005, but they should be considered the anomaly.
The primary thing affecting those resale values are fear and "conventional wisdom". You can save money now, but you'll come out even when you sell. However, he's right when it comes to insurance -- some companies are not even insuring wood frame any longer. Their underwriters must hear the same "CW".
Still, one must be prepared for the worst that nature can throw at us, and one must live with one's own fears. The only possible answer is to buy that which allays your fears and makes you comfortable.
Historically, however, in a conventionally built house, the difference between wood and CBS has made little difference. If the storm is bad enough, they both get knocked down. The only storm in recent memory that was bad enough was Andrew. That happened 15 years ago and in a small percentage of Florida, but of course it could happen again to Martin County, tomorrow.
Personally, and it appears I'm joined by the vast majority of Floridians, I prefer to play the odds. It's worked for me, so far...
This is very good advice. Besides, not many people actually want to live in a "hurricane proof" house. If you can find something affordable, and get insurance just go ahead and buy. Older CBS is the best bet as wood frame homes in Florida are often full of decay and insect damage which is hard to repair. CBS homes have lots of wood as well, only the outside walls are concrete block.
The odds of getting destroyed by a hurricane, especially on the east coast north of Okeechobee are small. Take your chances, and remember that no place in the US is safe.
We are looking to buy a house in Martin County. My husband wants to restrict our search to CBS houses, preferably built after Hurricane Andrew
(1992). His reasons are (1) better able to withstand a hurricane/built to modern building codes, (2) better resale value, (3) lower insurance.
I agree with him on all points - but am finding that frame houses and older CBS houses are a lot less expensive, at least to buy. We are looking to spend under $350K for a 4BR or 3+den. We are also hoping to stay in this house for a long time (~10 yrs).
Your thoughts? Is a new, more expensive CBS house reaaaally a better value than an older CBS house - or any frame house? If you had to concede something to get the cost down - either CBS vs. frame, or age of house - which would it be?
It depends on the individual house. Many older cbs houses are actually built stronger then the current standards. They used to use what was referred as a hurricane belt in many houses. It is a poured cap that goes around the whole house tying all the walls together. Many of todays houses even though up to code don't even have any poured columns and are built right up to the minimum of the code. They have chip board roofs where in many older homes you will 1 inch x 6 inch tongue and groove through out the roof. They also have hip roofs instead of gable roofs. They should not even be allowed to build gable roofs here but they still do and it is code approved.
You can also with older houses beef them up a little. Improved doors and garage doors. Get rid of poorly made overhangs, (Usually added later) or car ports tied into the main roof that can trigger a chain reaction failure. Point is, you can buy an older home and have a good house. Remember building codes are minimum and that is right where most builders stop. A good custom built, (not cookie cutter tracked home) may be a super home but you have to check it out. In Fort Lauderdale there are a bunch of homes called "Ketchem" homes that were built with concrete beamed roofs. They were built around the 50's when people coming here were conscious of the storms and wanted custom built houses they felt safe in and builders knew how to build safe homes if they were being paid to do so.
My sister-in-law has a house ocean front all poured concrete built in 1948 and it is perfect. Builders didn't need some BS codes to tell them how to build houses. Many of these new codes are just common sense, Added tie downs and extra nailing for roof sheeting and so on. They actually were addressing the crap homes that Florida became famous for, not nicely built custom built homes. Find out who the builder was and check out how the house is built. Personally, most of the newer homes are "Real" crap. They may meet a few added codes but for the most part are as cheaply built as the builder could get away with. Don't just listen to a realtor either who will use the building code thing to scare you or impress you with a house. Spend the money to have it checked out.
First off, I would stay away frome frame homes unless they were built before the 1960's in Florida - those were built extremely well. Chances are you won't find these in your travels around Martin County.
CBS homes are far more solid. I live in a 1977 CBS home in Broward County about 1 1/2 hours south of Martin County and it is solid. The other posters have provided great information - the older CBS homes tend to be more solid than the newer ones, but do look around.
It is difficult for Americans to understand the many advatages of a concrete house. In a country where the houses are made out of wood, it is hard to convince everybody that concrete houses are better than the conventional wood framed houses that we see in our cities. In my country, Cape Verde, we build houses in concrete! I am sure if i take one american into my city and show him or her the way we build our concrete houses, him or her will be fascinated. That is the only way I can picture to to Americans what is a concrete house, because everytime i try to explain it to them, they usually picture the concrete house as a big grey box, totally made out of poured concrete. That is wrong!
The concrete and framed houses look the same when finished. The difference is what remains veiled in the walls that you can not see...
It is difficult for Americans to understand the many advatages of a concrete house. In a country where the houses are made out of wood, it is hard to convince everybody that concrete houses are better than the conventional wood framed houses that we see in our cities. In my country, Cape Verde, we build houses in concrete! I am sure if i take one american into my city and show him or her the way we build our concrete houses, him or her will be fascinated. That is the only way I can picture to to Americans what is a concrete house, because everytime i try to explain it to them, they usually picture the concrete house as a big grey box, totally made out of poured concrete. That is wrong!
The concrete and framed houses look the same when finished. The difference is what remains veiled in the walls that you can not see...
Well in America we have concrete block homes, solid pour concrete homes, wood frame homes, polysteel homes, geodesic domes, panelized homes and more.
The original post was from almost a year ago just comparing wood frame to concrete block.
Well in America we have concrete block homes, solid pour concrete homes, wood frame homes, polysteel homes, geodesic domes, panelized homes and more.
The original post was from almost a year ago just comparing wood frame to concrete block.
I think he is referring to "poured concrete" structures, including poured concrete roofs.
That's a strong house, Tallricks roof is poured concrete and raised on steel/concrete pilings (Keys) You really can build an almost hurricane proof home (at least until the damn thing spawns an f4 tornado, then all bets are off.)
OT I just built a house, subcontracted all trades (owner builder) $64 sq ft under roof (2650.) (all marble bathrooms, polished concrete floors 12'8" flat ceiling
that type of stuff)
A house under $55 sq / ft under roof is easily doable. By the by, the price per square foot includes $13,500 impact fees!
I think he is referring to "poured concrete" structures, including poured concrete roofs.
That's a strong house, Tallricks roof is poured concrete and raised on steel/concrete pilings (Keys) You really can build an almost hurricane proof home (at least until the damn thing spawns an f4 tornado, then all bets are off.)
OT I just built a house, subcontracted all trades (owner builder) $64 sq ft under roof (2650.) (all marble bathrooms, polished concrete floors 12'8" flat ceiling
that type of stuff)
A house under $55 sq / ft under roof is easily doable. By the by, the price per square foot includes $13,500 impact fees!
A $169K is a very good price, congratulations....
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Mike P (heya)
