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So then if the current illegal immigrants come in from the shadows (thus, they no longer have to take the alleged jobs Americans won't do).... who takes their place? More illegal immigration? Isn't that a negative feedback loop?
It's always amazing, though, when I travel to states without large illegal populations, I see white guys and black guys doing all the jobs that "Americans" don't want to do in FLorida... like road work, construction, fast food, yard services....
Funny how that works.
Bingo, there you have it. Once they can work legally they will move on and be replaced by a whole new wave of illegals who can't get papers to work for one reason or another. It solves nothing. The only way to stop it is to go after the employers. Make it so costly if they get caught hiring illegible aliens that it would put them out of business. Watch how fast they comply. We as a country either have to have the stomach to do this or not. If we don't, and I have a feeling we don't, then it will never stop and only get worse. This whole thing is just a pointless conversation really because we know nothing is really going to be done. The Arizona thing has nothing to do with illegal immigration really, they have drug problems big time. The illegal immigration thing is just a distraction from their real problem that is getting lost in the political conversation. They are too afraid to confront the real problem and looking for some kind of scape goat as a pretense they are doing something. It is all another political farce played on the voting public. They basically have found an easy common enemy in the illegal immigrants they can rally people against while the real problem goes unanswered. "Hay, we tried to do something, don't blame us".
In the end, we've got enough of our "own" who cannot pull their own weight, I just see no benefit in taking in the world's underclasses?
Why would a doctor with an established practice want to come over here and start over again? I'm sure it happens once in a while, but overall, you are going to get people looking to improve the chances for their families. Most immigrant parts of town are teeming with life and full of small businesses. The children of first generation immigrants are often more successful than people who grew up here.
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
Most people who are for it seems to have ethnic affinity... doing what's best for "people who look like me" rather than what's best for America. That's a shame, and the same kind of racist mentality (from a different perspective) that would compel someone to want to keep out all people who DON'T look like them.
Wrong, but nice try pinning the racism on everyone else. Some people actually value the diversity that immigration brings. Variety is the spice of life.
Is this true? I have never heard of any such thing. You need it when you are driving, but I've never heard that you need it any other time.
New York State is one for sure....you must have Valid ID when stop by the police
Why in Canada and Mexico you have to show your valid ID whenever stop by police.....and here in America it is so hard for people to understand that the same people we are talking about expect us to do it in their country but when they come to America we are suppose to give them the royal treatment and let them march in our public streets and protest about rights and all kinds of BS
By opening up our markets to agricultural products grown in other parts of the world (dare I say, even in 3rd world markets, which may alleviate the need to "immigrate").
It would also drive prices up and contribute to our dependence on foreign oil since everything would have to be trucked in. Why do you think locally grown is such a big deal right now. There is no easy solution.
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
It's a quality of life issue for AMERICANS, overall, to be interested in reducing illegal immigration.
Again, I have no problem with dealing with illegal immigration. However, I would rather have cops focusing on crimes like rape, child abuse, etc. than chasing the migrant laborers in Loxahatchee around on their bicycles.
As long as there is a demand for their labor, they will find a way to get here. All your approach does is create fear of police in immigrant communities and no one will cooperate with the cops when they are trying to solve a case.
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
It's also probably very obvious that you are just a visitor and not trying to live illegally in that country. You should read up on how China deals with runaways from North Korea.
Perhaps, but I could have been a student who met a girl and overstayed my visa. I'm sure it's happened before. The point is do we really want cops trying to enforce this kind of stuff? That's what INS is for.
we are suppose to give them the royal treatment and let them march in our public streets and protest about rights and all kinds of BS
Haha, good lord. A lot of "them" are people who have been here for generations and don't want to suffer any more profiling from the police than they already do. Some of them would like their children to be able to take a class that teaches them about their community's unique history in America.
Why would a doctor with an established practice want to come over here and start over again? I'm sure it happens once in a while, but overall, you are going to get people looking to improve the chances for their families. Most immigrant parts of town are teeming with life and full of small businesses. The children of first generation immigrants are often more successful than people who grew up here.
Thanks, I live like 1 mile from the "immigrant part of town." I know first hand both the positives and negatives of same.
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Originally Posted by blacksmith76
Wrong, but nice try pinning the racism on everyone else. Some people actually value the diversity that immigration brings. Variety is the spice of life.
Wrong? How so? Care to look at the surnames of the most vocal opponents to the law? Or for those that call for "amnesty?" By the way, Hispanic is not a race, and neither are Mexicans (since you might note that Carlos Slim, Guillermo Del Toro, and Vicente Fox don't look like the guy who mows the lawn).
It would also drive prices up and contribute to our dependence on foreign oil since everything would have to be trucked in. Why do you think locally grown is such a big deal right now. There is no easy solution.
No. Agricultural subsidies in the United States cost the taxpayer BILLIONS... THEN the taxpayer has to further pay for "low food prices" by paying to take care of the families of underpaid workers... meaning that $1 corn is really $3 when indirect costs are factored in.
If American agribusiness lost its competitive (artificial) advantage over crops from other parts of the world, it would benefit America by reducing the need for illegal labor AND help the third world by making their goods competitive in US markets.
"Grown locally" is fine, but unrealistic in this economy to feed everyone. Besides, it would also assume smaller farms. If things are "grown locally," I'd expect the farmers to be able to pay human non-slave wages to workers as well, since the end product would not have transportation and storage costs involved.
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Originally Posted by blacksmith76
Again, I have no problem with dealing with illegal immigration. However, I would rather have cops focusing on crimes like rape, child abuse, etc. than chasing the migrant laborers in Loxahatchee around on their bicycles.
And the AZ law does not require local police to become mini ICE agents.... only to ascertain immigration status for those immigrants that DO commit crimes, cause disturbance, etc.
I don't know about you, but if I was a government, and someone commits a crime, I would like to know if this person can be deported at the end of their sentence, so that they do not come back to the community afterwards and continue their criminal ways.
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Originally Posted by blacksmith76
As long as there is a demand for their labor, they will find a way to get here. All your approach does is create fear of police in immigrant communities and no one will cooperate with the cops when they are trying to solve a case.
I agree, which is why employers and enablers of illegal immigrant labor need to be fined heavily.
And, it does not create fear in the "immigrant" communities... only the "illegal immigrant" communities (again, BIG difference, and as someone who has family in the IMMIGRANT communities, I appreciate the distinction being made, thank you). That same "fear" is what drives the demand for illegal immigration. No need to provide healthcare, livable wages, workplace protections, etc. when you KNOW that your employees won't do anything.
It's like the drug war... supply side vs. demand side. You need to go after the users (employers), and the producers (illegals) to craft a workable plan. Unfortunately, the "users" (business) cry "racism" and "going out of business" and politicians get scared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksmith76
Perhaps, but I could have been a student who met a girl and overstayed my visa. I'm sure it's happened before. The point is do we really want cops trying to enforce this kind of stuff? That's what INS is for.
Well, it is there prerogative. Most of the time though, I think they are realistic. You don't typically find Americans meeting third worlders and deciding to settle down in the third world. Usually, Americans bring their lovers back to the US.
Haha, good lord. A lot of "them" are people who have been here for generations and don't want to suffer any more profiling from the police than they already do. Some of them would like their children to be able to take a class that teaches them about their community's unique history in America.
Um, AZ law does not prohibit teaching "Mexican" history in America... it only bands courses that teach and ferment resentment and la la land fantasies of Aztlan and reconquista, and about overthrowing the US government.
If America wants to be a cohesive nation, and give its citizens a shared common bond, rather than become a balkanized failed experiment in multiculturalism, the teaching of separatist and non-American nationalist ideas should have no place in public schools.
What about them? Has illegal immigration from Canada presented itself as a problem?
Since Canada is our equal they do not feel the need to sneak into the USA except for a few that overstay their visas. Mexico is a third world septic pit and as long and the haves in America still have, then they want to take. I do wish that Mexico could get a handle on the corruption there and become a little more evolved so we could become better neighbors again.
Florida would be a better place if the police could profile individuals that they "suspect" are immigrants? I don't think so. This would mean that every brunette, hispanic-looking individual in our state would be subject to searches, even if they weren't illegal. I guess the civil rights movements meant nothing after all.
I have less-than-kind things to say about this act, and I could go on for a page about it, but I won't. What I will say is that it violates the civil rights of a select group of individuals, and that this immigration reform needs to start in Mexico, not necessarily the US. If nothing were wrong with Mexico, I don't think anyone would need to migrate to the US from that country. And what of illegals from Canada? Why haven't we put an iron curtain across our border with that country? I hear a lot of grief about the Mexicans, but I've yet to hear a complaint about the Canadians.
I think like Mr. Holder, you are also confused about our bill. We treat hispanics here with kid gloves and nothing changes except the officer can now ask for papers if the person of interest is involved in a crime or has committed a traffic offense. What is wrong with that? The cops will not be ripping people out of their beds or off the street or out of their cars or out of ice creme parlors like our President suggested. This law only mirrors what the Federal law that is in place does. Nothing more and a little less. Perhaps when your property taxes are so high you cant survive you will realize that we can't continue to feed the world.
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