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How many middle men are there from Farm all the way to the Table?
Meaning, from producers like farmers who plant seeds, to branding companies, wholesalers, markets, vendors, delivery services restaurants, franchises, purveyors etc etc.
I been watching some of these vids about these large markets that are closed to public, and only open to like licensed vendors or various sorts. In other words you cant buy retail there. So before you can buy it retail, all the food goes through these market. How that system evolve? And why are they all clustered together? At one point, organized crime was heavily involved or at least rumored to be. How did anyone get any food in that case?
An example is the Fulton Fish Market/Hunts Point Cooperative market, which is the largest of its kind in the world. Its located in a run down part of the Bronx. It has all kinds of food. The old Fulton Fish Market was located in this grimy smell part of lower Manhattan. They had not had any fishing boats drop off any fish since 1970s. Instead they literally have fish trucked in from as far as Florida. Its not the only one of its kind in the world.
Are the vendors with operations at these cooperative markets the producers, or are they wholesalers? How does one buy into this system and become a vendor? I just dont see the point. If you are trucking food from as far as Florida; its not fresh anyways. Why not just buy direct from producer? The advent of internet should have cut out a lot of middle men.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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That depends. Here in Seattle, for example, we have some fishermen selling right off of the boat when they return from sea. We have seafood stores that buy off the boats and sell retail, and we have large fish processors that fish, process, and sell only wholesale. Much of the frozen fish at Costco comes from a local company that has catcher boats in Alaska, brings the fish here to processing ships, then freeze and bring down here for packaging and shipping. I have no idea how they get fresh fish in places not near a coast, such as Nebraska or Iowa.
We can get fresh produce picked that morning from the Yakima Valley at various Farmer's Markets all summer, but most produce at the supermarkets comes from wholesalers that buy from California, Mexico and hothouses in British Columbia. Some of our milk and eggs come from local producers.
There are 9,000 cattle owners, 20-30 cattle feedyards and two slaughter houses in Washington, so most meat is also local, but sold to wholesalers who then sell to grocery stores and restaurants.
Food safety and liability
Has changed the supply chain …
Also ground level costs/inflation
Are almost prohibitive….
Much easier selling to a dealer or wholesaler.. than the public then they assume all liabilities
How many wholesalers does it go thru??
Depends on what and where it is . I’ve worked food retail/wholesale most of my life
And I can tell you food handling safety is huge all along the way
However , what I see that concerns me is all these farmers markets
And open air co-ops that sound very wholesome but absolutely no oversight… of food handling
Safety …. Many items that should be refrigerated ( under 41f ) are not and no one seems to care
If it was in my stores the state would shut me down
However , what I see that concerns me is all these farmers markets
And open air co-ops that sound very wholesome but absolutely no oversight… of food handling
Safety …. Many items that should be refrigerated ( under 41f ) are not and no one seems to care
If it was in my stores the state would shut me down
Agreed.
At farmers markets, I have eggs that are 5-7 days old that have NOT been under refrigeration at all. While the eggs might not be spoiled, it certainly impacts the shelf life of the product.
Also, you have the question as to the source of the products. While some people are legitimate farmers or producers, many are down at the produce warehouses purchasing the seconds and other salvage products.
I sill remember taking my MIL to a farmers market in Chicagoland. The young girl was trying to sell her heirloom tomatoes for $4.99/ lb. By that time, my MIL have been growing tomatoes for over 70 years. She looked at the girl and told her that the product was inferior as the tomatoes had been overwatered. However, the locals were snapping them up even though they had large cracks in them.
What I find ironic about this farmers market in McHenry Co., IL, whole health department loves to go around and harass churches for their church dinners as the baked goods "are not produced in licensed commercial kitchen" and requires them to post signs everywhere does nothing to regulate farmers markets where products are produced in home kitchens.
Food safety and liability
Has changed the supply chain …
Also ground level costs/inflation
Are almost prohibitive….
Much easier selling to a dealer or wholesaler.. than the public then they assume all liabilities
How many wholesalers does it go thru??
Depends on what and where it is . I’ve worked food retail/wholesale most of my life
And I can tell you food handling safety is huge all along the way
However , what I see that concerns me is all these farmers markets
And open air co-ops that sound very wholesome but absolutely no oversight… of food handling
Safety …. Many items that should be refrigerated ( under 41f ) are not and no one seems to care
If it was in my stores the state would shut me down
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01
Agreed.
At farmers markets, I have eggs that are 5-7 days old that have NOT been under refrigeration at all. While the eggs might not be spoiled, it certainly impacts the shelf life of the product.
Also, you have the question as to the source of the products. While some people are legitimate farmers or producers, many are down at the produce warehouses purchasing the seconds and other salvage products.
I sill remember taking my MIL to a farmers market in Chicagoland. The young girl was trying to sell her heirloom tomatoes for $4.99/ lb. By that time, my MIL have been growing tomatoes for over 70 years. She looked at the girl and told her that the product was inferior as the tomatoes had been overwatered. However, the locals were snapping them up even though they had large cracks in them.
What I find ironic about this farmers market in McHenry Co., IL, whole health department loves to go around and harass churches for their church dinners as the baked goods "are not produced in licensed commercial kitchen" and requires them to post signs everywhere does nothing to regulate farmers markets where products are produced in home kitchens.
Wait so the whole point of going through all the middle men is to ensure the food is safe and fresh?
I dont see how that will help. The more people that handle it before the eater likely means a mistake was made. A contamination happened. It will also spend more time plucked, or butchered, or caught, which means its less fresh by the time someone eats it. Because it has spent more time out there if it changes hands more often.
Here is another good video. But I am not sure I understand everything. The vid says a lot of buyers are international. So they travel so far just to have to ship it so far back home? That is not fresh at all.
Also I remember a long time ago, I was interviewing for position with Red Lobster's parent company. I forget the name. The interviewer casually mentioned that Red Lobster was the largest purchaser of seafood of whatever kind by volume at that time. Would it not make more sense to just have your own fishing fleet at that point? Or at least farm them yourself.
And I seriously dont get how they set prices.
Also I almost always see the same kinds of fish at supermarkets, and restaurants. Why even have "market" if its always the same fishes? There is no differentiation. How do you even compete in it. Sure sometimes I see something exotic at restaurants or supermarket but not enough to build an open market around.
Also the video below mentions fish mongers particularly Korean fish mongers. Actually there are not a lot of fish mongers in general. Most seafood is bought at the supermarket. There is only one korean supermarket chain called H Mart. There is not competition in the sector. H Mart should just have its own fleet or its own aqua farms.
Looking at prices for CSA "Community Supported Agriculture" here in eastern Massachusetts - I expected it to be a good deal cheaper than the supermarket, because there's no middleman. Instead, it's a good deal more expensive than the supermarket, and in some cases it can be as much as 100% more.
I don't know why it's this way, but I suspect that the farms supplying the supermarket are very efficient commercial operations, with lower costs and they're passing savings on to consumers - that's part of it anyways. Of course, when you get good local produce, it can taste a lot better as the produce is fully ripened on the plant and then comes to you as fresh as it gets, but you'll pay a premium for it.
I just picked strawberries at a local farm last Friday. Now, I was glad I did it - it was fun, and the strawberries, all carefully selected by me to be at peak ripeness, tasted wonderful. But, I am supplying the labor, and for a heaping quart of strawberries, I paid $10.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 06-19-2023 at 09:08 PM..
Looking at prices for CSA "Community Supported Agriculture" here in eastern Massachusetts - I expected it to be a good deal cheaper than the supermarket, because there's no middleman. Instead, it's a good deal more expensive than the supermarket, and in some cases it can be as much as 100% more.
I don't know why it's this way, but I suspect that the farms supplying the supermarket are very efficient commercial operations, with lower costs and they're passing savings on to consumers - that's part of it anyways. Of course, when you get good local produce, it can taste a lot better as the produce is fully ripened on the plant and then comes to you as fresh as it gets, but you'll pay a premium for it.
I am guessing but CSA are probably difficult and expensive business to enter. The big box supermarkets have been around for decades. They have Wall Street support. They can depress prices for a long time before cutting out competition, and forcing vendors to capitulate to their demands.
I once thought about th, Potatoes at 10c a pound, from 1,000 miles away. Some steps ma be automated, but still needs human oversight and maintenance.
Investor owns the field.
Rental agent leases it to grower
Seeds are sold to grower
Seeds are shipped to grower
Seeds are planted.
Crop is fertilized
Crop is pesticided
Crop is harvested
Product is loaded for shipment
Truck driven to processor
Crop is unloaded
Productis inspected and selected
Product is washed
Product loaded for shipment
Truck is drien to market destination
Product is auctioned to wholesaler.
Retailer buys product
Product is shipped to retailer
Retailer unloads product
Retailer inspests, weighs and bags product.
Stocker moves product to retail display.
Checker rings up purchase
Bagger puts purchase in bag, and carries it to consumer's car.
Count them. Looks like 23.
.
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