Help ! drain pipe problem , condo (sales, HOA, homeowners insurance)

[ecoast]

I live on the second floor of a 2 story condominimum. On Tuesday Feb 9 my neighbor from the first floor knocked on my door & said there was a water leak on her ceiling. A plumber cut a hole on her (drywall) ceiling to look at the problem. He also came into my condo but did not see any water leak (mark)

My drain pipe locates in the middle of the wall. Left side (of wall) is closet. Right side (of wall) is bathroom sink.
He said he guessed that my drain pipe (from the bathroom sink) could be the problem. He said he want to cut through the drywall (of my closet) to look at it.

He told me to turn the water on (from the bathroom sink). It seems that it could be the problem. He came to the first floor unit & it seems verify his guess. I enclose the picture of my closet & my bathroom sink

Who will pay for the repair? First floor ? Second floor? Both units? Association? (because drain pipe is inside wall). How much will it cost? Thank you for your help

[Gypsy3n8]

YIKES, that sucks. But I'm afraid it may be your responsibility. Call your homeowners insurance to find out for sure.

[wizrap]

The same thing happened to me when I owned a condo. I also lived on the top floor. The O ring from my toilet leaked onto the bathroom ceiling of the condo right below me. To make matters worse, the owners had even wallpapered the ceiling!
I never saw it, but I understand it was a mess.

My neighbor and I both contacted the HOA and we were told it wasn’t their problem; we owned the plumbing in our condos & we would have to work it out. My neighbor then asked me to contact my homeowners insurance company as he felt it was my responsibility. I had Allstate at the time & they were no help. Those good hands sure do separate. I was told that because I didn’t do anything to cause the plumbing leak, the responsibility to repair the mess was my neighbor’s (& that he should file a claim with his homeowners insurance company).

My neighbor was angry. He didn’t want to file a claim because he didn’t want his rates to go up. I didn’t want to pay because I had been told by my insurance company I was not responsible. So he sued me in small claims court as he felt I had caused his damages.

When the mediator called me to get my side of the story, I told him all the facts as I knew them, & that I didn’t even know if the amount of damages claimed was reasonable. My neighbor never contacted me to get an estimate, nor did I even know if he even got two or three estimates or just went with one that was very expensive.

The mediator said that the courts try to get an agreement on the small claims issued so that the system isn’t bogged down and he would call my neighbor with my statement. My neighbor was so frustrated after hearing from him that he decided to drop the lawsuit against me. I was too much of an aggravation.

I don’t know how much help this is to you but certainly a call to the HOA and your insurance company is warranted. Maybe you won’t experience all the drama that I did.

[ecoast]

Thank you for your reply. My neighbor & I are in okay relation. He sent me the picture of his water leak. The plumber put a bucket to contain the water leak. We do not know who use that drain pipe. If it belongs to me then I have to take responsibility. If it belongs to my neighbor then he has to take responsibility. If it belongs to both us then both of us have to take responsibility. If it belongs to the association then the association has to take the responsibility.

My condo does not have a real association. They let a property management company handles everything. I emailed them to ask for the detailed schematics of the plumbing system of the condo (to see which pipes are considered whose responsibility).

[Lincolnian]

You should check state condominium laws. In some states the association's insurance is primary for water leaks and the owner of one unit is not responsible for damage to others. This makes sense since a leak behind the wall on an upper floor could potentially affect all the units below it. It is possible that the waste from one unit may have led to a clog in another unit's drain. Determining responsibility may not be clear cut. In any case, most drain lines in the wall are common elements if they serve more than one unit.

[bab_LeBeau]

another reason not to own a multilevel anything, esp a condo

[ecoast]

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

You should check state condominium laws. In some states the association's insurance is primary for water leaks and the owner of one unit is not responsible for damage to others. This makes sense since a leak behind the wall on an upper floor could potentially affect all the units below it. It is possible that the waste from one unit may have led to a clog in another unit's drain. Determining responsibility may not be clear cut. In any case, most drain lines in the wall are common elements if they serve more than one unit.

I received the email from the property management company. It says: “The waste pipe in questions is proprietary to your unit and is not a common element to all the units or shared by any others. There for your responsibly. Sorry we do not have the schematics on the plumbing system.”

They said to me that they do not have the schematics. However, my neighbor sent me the screen capture of his email (they said that he can purchase the documents from the office here for $30.00)

I read this from the below Website: “In Florida, and detailed in our docs, any leaks within the walls are the responsibility of the association. So in our situation, the answer to your timeliness question is IMMEDIATELY.

Here, the association is responsible for drywall repair and owners are responsible for painting the drywall. Neglect by the association to repair the leaks should result in their being responsible for both.”

https://www.condoassociation.com/blo...ge-condo-walls

[Lillie767]

In many states, the condo owner owns "from the walls out" and the association owns "behind the walls". You have to find out the details of ownership.

"“Every set of condominium documents—or I should say in reviewing many, many, many, I've never seen one that didn't—will have two principal sections that are important,” Poliakoff explains. “One of those sections will outline what constitutes a common element or condominium property—usually common element because the association usually does not actually own property—and what portion constitutes what is within the boundaries of the unit and is owned by the unit owner.”

“The second section in every set of condominium documents will lay out the maintenance responsibilities for various elements in the building, whether they are common or limited common elements, which are common elements which are dedicated to the use of one or more people specifically to the exclusion of others, or owned property portions of the unit,” Poliakoff says.

The experts say that 99 percent of Florida associations have this specific repair information listed in their documents. “Usually, this was already done by the developer and their attorneys who prepared the governing documents in advance of the initial sales offering,” Schnaitman says. “Rarely would the declaration of a condo or co-op be amended to change a level of responsibility of this nature.”"

I suggest you read this article. https://soflcooperator.com/article/w...r-repairs/full

[ecoast]

Originally Posted by Lillie767

I suggest you read this article. https://soflcooperator.com/article/w...r-repairs/full

I saw this paragraph on that Website.

“Traditionally, pipes within walls and electrical elements that are within conduits within the walls are generally considered a common element, since they occupy interior space. Those things are usually the association's maintenance responsibility pursuant to the declaration.”

I wonder if Help me Howard of Channel 7 WSVN will help us with this case.

[wizrap]

So far, your situation has started out like mine did. My neighbor & I both got that same response from our condo HOA.

Now to see if you deviate from what happened to me. We didn’t know each other before the leak, so we were on neutral terms, but when we ran into the roadblock from the HOA, he wanted repairs done and wanted a resolution in his favor & came after me.

You are in the situation I was in; living on the top floor, you have no damage. But she does. There’s a water stain on her ceiling. How long is she going to want to look at it? Or imagine mold developing?

Sure, call Help Me Howard but IMHO get your respective insurance companies involved immediately.