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First, let's settle on definitions. What might seem perfectly normal to one "frugalite" (washing sandwich bags, say, or Dumpster diving) might seem beyond the pale to another. So how do you know when you've gone too far?
I'd say tight is too tight when you:
- End up spending more because you opted for cheap when quality mattered.
- Make other people pay for your savings (see "Are you frugal -- or stingy?").
- Pay too high a cost in discomfort, irritation or any serious reduction in your quality of life."
Last edited by Beretta; 10-11-2009 at 02:13 PM..
Reason: to fit the TOS
Frugal is where you save money so you can have a massive blow out in Vegas.
Tight is where you save money but never go to Vegas.
I like your take on it!
My first thought when I read the thread title was "when you start mooching off others". I have a relative who constantly brags about how frugal he is and how he saves so much. To the rest of us, he's a big old mooch.
He refuses to buy a newspaper, but expects us to save ours for him. Gets angry if we toss ours out.
Shows up frequently for meals and handouts but would never think of contributing a thing. Somehow, it's the job of the rest of us to feed him so he can golf every day.
I like everyone's take on "frugal" so far; I mostly agree.
It comes up somewhat often in this forum, either explicitly or implicitly. The terminology can be confusing because people often use one term instead of the other, as if they are interchangeable. There is a difference between being frugal and being "cheap", stingy, etc. Frugality has a goal of reducing waste in more than just monetary cost and there is a purpose of enjoyment rather than simply being a miser or hoarder. Being cheap is trying to reduce financial costs even at the expense of other costs like time, health, enjoyment, etc.
Some of the cost factors are subjective and vary by person. "Enjoyment" would be the best example of a factor that will depend on each person. I think a lot of people, however, go to the extreme of making enjoyment (or other such subjective factors) outweigh the others in order to convince themselves they are "frugal". There's no way anyone can prove that they're not being frugal since "enjoyment" is so subjective, but most often these people are fooling themselves and not others.
Frugality involves sacrificing enjoyment. People who never sacrifice their enjoyment are not frugal. Being frugal doesn't mean ALWAYS sacrificing enjoyment, it means considering enjoyment as a cost factor and deciding how much of it to spend (give up, or sacrifice) in a particular activity in order to have the best, most efficient overall experience. Sometimes enjoyment is increased while other costs are spent instead.
When I go to Las Vegas each year, I get hotel rooms for free or for well under $30. I stay downtown at old hotels that are perfectly clean but very low-frills. The rooms I get are like standard motel rooms, very simple, old, functional w/ bed, TV, chair/table, full bathroom and not much else. Is my enjoyment decreased by staying there instead of a big strip hotel with a pool, flat-screen TV, new sheets/furniture/etc.??? Of course it is. But when I weigh how much it's decreased, it's not much. I'm not in the room much anyway, and most of what I need are the basics.
However, when I've gone with various friends, my needs and enjoyment change. Sometimes it is worth spending $100 or more a night to stay at a nice place on the strip because of the person or people I'm with. When friends ask for recommendations of where to stay, I look at their needs and wants - I tell my single, male friends to stay downtown and spend the money they save on other things, but I tell my friends who are taking wives/S.O.'s to stay in nicer places since they may spend more time in the room and also since women tend to really have a huge swing in the "enjoyment" factor between a plain old downtown hotel room and a nice, fancier, new strip hotel room.
Last year, I went with 3 friends to Vegas. My one friend is notoriously cheap, but thinks he's frugal. He's not frugal, he's cheap. He and one of the other guys stayed in the MGM for the weekend. It cost them $199 a night. Right across from the MGM was the Tropicana where my other friend and I stayed, to be near the other two guys. We got a room for about $59 a night discount. Our whole weekend cost less than one night for those other guys. Their room was MUCH nicer, but ours was perfectly fine and clean. Their pool (pool complex, really) was much nicer and fancier, but our pool was also very nice and fancy enough w/ waterfalls, etc. One day we went to their pool and one day to ours - their pool had better looking women and more of them so it was fun to lie on a chaise, but we had more fun actually swimming in the Trop's pool. Other than the pool, none of us really made use of either hotel's amenities. We gambled all over, we went to clubs and bars at different hotels. We were never in our hotel rooms, really.
Then, we went out for dinner, and the guy with the MGM room didn't want to buy a drink at one bar because they wanted $14 for the drink. Yes, that's high, but he's the guy who overspent on the room. We asked why and he said, "Come on guys, you know how frugal I am!" No, he wasn't being frugal at that point, he was being cheap. He kept bugging us to leave so he could get a drink somewhere else. We left there and he had no problem paying $9 for a drink elsewhere, but the bar we left was much better than where we wound up (we were at the Voodoo lounge and when we left we went to a casino bar at Harrah's).
Anyway, my Vegas stories are just meant to be an example, but I think most people "get" what I'm talking about. But I also know that there are many, many people who don't get it at all.
The line is individual. Bob is invited to an important function (ie., wedding, grad. party, reunion) may have used nearly his last dollar to get there and to leave a tip to the hotel personnel, servers etc. may not be an option. Now would he be considered "tighter" had he not gone, or to have gone, but in less style. Well, depends if your the bride, the bell-boy, or Bob - chances of Bob avoiding negative judgment????
The line is individual. Bob is invited to an important function (ie., wedding, grad. party, reunion) may have used nearly his last dollar to get there and to leave a tip to the hotel personnel, servers etc. may not be an option. Now would he be considered "tighter" had he not gone, or to have gone, but in less style. Well, depends if your the bride, the bell-boy, or Bob - chances of Bob avoiding negative judgment????
Nobody would judge Bob's frugality based on his decision to go to the function; only Bob can determine the importance of it.
What can be judged is how Bob goes about it. Does he fly the cheapest flight, or does he pay $100 more because he can't be bothered to take a connecting flight because he "doesn't enjoy changing planes"??? That's something I would judge as Bob not being frugal, because the time and effort to change planes (typically an extra 1/2-hour to 1 hour and a relatively easy walk through the connection airport) is worth a savings of $100 or more; maybe even $50 or more.
Is Bob making his hotel choice frugally or is he being frivolous and falling back on the "enjoyment" factor? If he is staying at an expensive hotel with bell-boys rather than a nearby inexpensive hotel/motel where he'd have to carry his own bags, that's not very frugal.
Is Bob eating out in restaurants with servers for every meal on the trip instead of finding lower-cost options like fast food, pizza, cold-cuts or fresh food from a grocery store, etc.??? If so, then he is not being frugal.
So, yes, the line is individual, but people all too often exploit that as an excuse.
I once heard someone wring a guy out that was a millionaire, because he bought second hand clothes.
I figure that is probably one of the reasons he became a millionaire, and maybe clothes were not that important to him. Everyone is different. Let's just be thankful that we have a choice and it is ours to make.
Nobody would judge Bob's frugality based on his decision to go to the function; only Bob can determine the importance of it.
What can be judged is how Bob goes about it. Does he fly the cheapest flight, or does he pay $100 more because he can't be bothered to take a connecting flight because he "doesn't enjoy changing planes"??? That's something I would judge as Bob not being frugal, because the time and effort to change planes (typically an extra 1/2-hour to 1 hour and a relatively easy walk through the connection airport) is worth a savings of $100 or more; maybe even $50 or more.
Is Bob making his hotel choice frugally or is he being frivolous and falling back on the "enjoyment" factor? If he is staying at an expensive hotel with bell-boys rather than a nearby inexpensive hotel/motel where he'd have to carry his own bags, that's not very frugal.
Is Bob eating out in restaurants with servers for every meal on the trip instead of finding lower-cost options like fast food, pizza, cold-cuts or fresh food from a grocery store, etc.??? If so, then he is not being frugal.
So, yes, the line is individual, but people all too often exploit that as an excuse.
They most certainly do - but to think no one will judge anothers frugality or tightness when they don't show up to a function or certain parts thereof or leave an appropriate tip is naive.
To me frugal (myself) is thrifty as in saving money on the things you need, thinking twice about spending and tight (my ex-husband) hanging onto money for the sake of hanging onto it and going without things that you need, things the majority of other people see as necessary. Frugal would be turning down the heat in the house and putting on a sweater not keeping it off when you have the money to have it on.
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No, he wasn't being frugal at that point, he was being cheap. He kept bugging us to leave so he could get a drink somewhere else. We left there and he had no problem paying $9 for a drink elsewhere, but the bar we left was much better than where we wound up (we were at the Voodoo lounge and when we left we went to a casino bar at Harrah's).
