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II is for a child maned after his uncle.Your son should be IV
Yes, I was going to say...my father was III (later Jr), his dad was II (later Sr), and his uncle was the 1st. When the direct line of descent is broken, I always thought the child was the II, not Jr.
This is so subjective. My husband is the third, son is the fourth. So far, no pressure or feeling they have to live up to their dad because the name.
You posted my thoughts exactly... I'm a 3rd.. was called Threezie a good deal of my younger life...
I didn't try to be like my dad... although that would have been quite a task... My dad's (92) a great man who I cherish and respect very much...
All this family stuff is hysterical, if you actually do your family tree you will realize half way that SOMEONE had an illegitmate child, oh wait several someones.
And THEY'RE just the ones folk knew about.
Just ONE cuckold disrupts the entire family gene line, and cheating was just as common then, as it is now.
So all this geneology is important to no one but whoever is interested in it, and the experts realize that the truth can never be known.
With DNA testing the truth can be known.
It's amazing to me to find DNA connections with someone seven or eight generations back. To me that has some implications for fidelity. Sure, if the infidelity was with someone related to the spouse, DNA might not pick that up. However, illegitimate did not always mean unacknowledged.
In fact, I believe that it used to be customary for people to cease using suffixes upon the deaths of their relatives. So, if a family looks like this:
John Smith
John Smith, Jr.
John Smith III
And the first dies, Jr. becomes simply "John Smith" and John Smith III becomes John Smith Jr.
"II" is really only appropriate when one has the same name as an older relative, but is not the child of that person. So if Bill Jones names his son Tom after his living brother, the son is Tom Jones II.
When I was growing up we had close family friends, Robert, Senior (about 75 when I was a child), Robert, Junior (about 50), Robert the third (about 25), called Bobby the third and his baby boy called Bobby the fourth. All of the family lived together or next door to each other.
Ten years later, when I was a teenager, Robert, Senior passed away so everyone moved up. Now there was Robert Senior (age 60), Bobby the third started to use Robert Junior (age 35) and his son, now called (whether that was correct or not) Bobby the third (age 11).
Well, twenty years later, the oldest passed away. OMG! Now they all used new names again.
I remember visiting my parents and they were talking about Robert Senior (age 55) who I used to know as Robert Junior AND as Bobby the third. His son (age 31) was now called Robert Junior and he had a son also named Robert.
Now, that Robert Senior is gone and the newest Robert Senior is the baby boy that I remember seeing as a newborn, plus he has a son and grandson named Robert as well (I don't know about numbers, if any). They still live on the family farm in several houses right next to each.
Frankly, every time we talked about the family it took a few minutes just to figure out who we were actually talking about. These were/are prominent members of the community and it must be even worse for other people to understand who is who.
If the person you're referring to as John Smith Sr. was the son of Robert Smith, he only became "John Smith Senior" when he had a son he named Junior. Therefore, you are III and your son will be IV. If the original John Smith, your great-great-grandfather, had no son named John Smith Junior who is YOUR direct descendant, then his connection to the name you bear is irrelevant.
My dad went by Jr so I would be the 3rd. I remember as a young boy being in the bank with dad and there was some confusion cus he didn't always sign his name the same way. In our case the middle names are different so I always include my middle initial in my signature. I don't know if my grandfather had a middle name. I think a different middle name is a good idea.
Great feedback all, thanks. These days, changing the suffix as Suzy_Q mentioned would really mess up credit reports and not worth it. Somehow, my father benefited from my credit a few years ago and way back when I had trouble getting a mortgage because his credit was pulling too. It's really odd and I've been through that a few times so the suffix will not change. We all share the middle name which was originally the maiden name of Elizabeth the very 1st John's wife.
Yes, if Robert was really a John then I would be the 4th. But I am the 3rd forever, we only recently found the birth cert for my grandfather listing his father as John (not Robert) sort of confirming this family story. The mother is of course correct and the handwriting seems concise. All the names/genealogy are positively correct with the possible exception of the Robert name. He passed right before I was born but my father knew him well, we are a close family. Friends and family say name the baby the 5th (Johnny 5!, let me know if you get that movie line) but this story might get tiring, admittedly.
You also have the option to name the child's middle name instead of first to continue it. My middle name is such by firs name different. Quite common in earlier years. Just as it was is again common for women to use their maiden last name as middle name . Whatever John Smith.
I myself do not understand naming your sons tha same name as you and adding a number.. Why not give them an identity unto them selves and give them a unique name to them...
The only purpose is to differentiate living people with the same name, to avoid confusion, so I'd go with IV. Years from now, some genealogist will bless you for it.
No, they'll hate him, because unless the folks in question are royalty, the numbers are only added if his predecessors are still living.
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