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A big pet peeve of mine is when people confuse their nation of origin with their ethnicity or 'race' ect.
Germany is not a 'race', Mexico is not a 'race', France is not a 'race'
Holland, is not a 'race', Cambodia is not a 'race', America, is not a 'race' and so forth.
And I get annoyed when I hear people say
"Oh I'm part Irish, and part Jewish, and part Native American'
Ok, that makes absolutely zero since to me.
That would be like someone State side saying 'I'm part Texan, part Floridian and part Oregon'...huh??
Question - Say if 'white couple' from Britain, moves to Angola, a nation State on the continent of Africa, they move there, have kids, when their kids grow up and asked who they are, are they
1. Part African, and part Britain? (Those are nations States, not genealogy, not genetics)
2. A Britain, living in Africa (But even that doesn't make sense since now days one can be 'Black' and a British citizen, who moves back to Angola, Africa)
Citizenship is not genealogy either)
3. Do they describe 'who they are' in terms of religious affiliation?, political affiliation?
Just saying, in the year 2021 and beyond, seems the definition of what a person is is becoming more and more detached from the former ways of defining people.
And in closing, sorry, but being part Irish (A State nation, not a ethnic group) and part Navajo (a tribe based on culture, not genealogy) makes zero since to me.
Maybe someone can enlighten me a bit, always willing to listen and learn.
If you are doing DNA it will break down where your ancestors came from. A Britain living in Africa and their children born there are no more African in DNA than an African's children who were born in Ireland are Irish but if someone says they are Irish, Jewish and Native American they are talking about their ancestors and their DNA not where they themselves were born. Nothing to do with race. You could have a totally white person who thinks their DNA is mostly from Europe find out that they have a small amount of Nigerian blood.
I partially agree with OP.
In English, at least, American culture English mentality, I am Italian means I was born in Italy. That you can be Italian German, that is beyond the grasp of Americans. I keep throwing them off kilter by asking - Italian what? They look at me like I asked them for solution to some complex mathematical problem. Huh? Then I say, what was your mother ethnicity? Oh, she's German. OK, so you are German, born in Italy, by blood.
Americans do not have concept of what "by blood" means.
Then, oif course, you cultural ethnicity, not the bloodline one. You can encounter a 100% black person in the heart of Russia, born there to both black parents, who 200% considers himself Russian, as he is Russian by culture, mentality, language, upbringing. So there's that too.
This is why lately, when they ask me, where you from, I say - Soviet Union. That, usually, kills any further questions. Most folks don't even remember, what it was.
Then, oif course, you cultural ethnicity, not the bloodline one. You can encounter a 100% black person in the heart of Russia, born there to both black parents, who 200% considers himself Russian, as he is Russian by culture, mentality, language, upbringing. So there's that too.
This is why lately, when they ask me, where you from, I say - Soviet Union. That, usually, kills any further questions. Most folks don't even remember, what it was.
Further comment on this one point--
My relatives would go to the barricades to defend the notion that they were German (German American). That is not an uncommon sentiment. I hear people say they are "German" when they are really talking about cultural ethnicity. My paternal line was from about 20-30 miles west of Gdansk, formerly Danzig, situated on the Baltic coast of Poland (Pommern). They lived about 8 miles from the Baltic coast in an area that saw a lot of movement in and out over the last 600 years. They were a wild mix of Frisian, Kashub, German, Polish, Danish, Swedish, Old Prussian, and other West Slavic groups. They likely moved there from the west (North Sea coast) around 1300 and "embraced" the local population, literally. Culturally, they were German, Lutheran, and worked on several Prussian Junker manor farms. They spoke Plattdeutsch. Everybody and their brother ruled that area but it became Prussian and German by the time they left. It is Polish now. Additionally, my wife's gr-grandfather claimed to be German but was named Vaclav and was born near Pilsen in Bohemia (Czech Rep.). My maternal gr-grandfather claimed to be Bavarian but was born in Ukraine... perhaps his parents were Bavarian. He changed his name on arrival in America so he can't be traced -- but I have a lot of Ukrainian and Russian DNA matches.
I partially agree with OP.
In English, at least, American culture English mentality, I am Italian means I was born in Italy. That you can be Italian German, that is beyond the grasp of Americans. I keep throwing them off kilter by asking - Italian what? They look at me like I asked them for solution to some complex mathematical problem. Huh? Then I say, what was your mother ethnicity? Oh, she's German. OK, so you are German, born in Italy, by blood.
Americans do not have concept of what "by blood" means.
They look at you like that because you're being pedantic.
I’m know someone whose both parents are 100% Italian. They moved to S Africa. He considers himself 100% Italian because he comes from 100% Italian blood. He lives in Michigan now.
Seems like every now and then we get someone not into genealogy who posts something similar. Should just link them to the last thread, tell them they'll get their answer there. Happy reading, or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783
I’m know someone whose both parents are 100% Italian. They moved to S Africa. He considers himself 100% Italian because he comes from 100% Italian blood. He lives in Michigan now.
If he did his DNA at Ancestry, he would probably be mostly Italian but he will also have other ethnicities.
Both of my parents are Hungarian, I'm mostly Eastern European (Hungarian genetic community) with a little bit of Italian.
They invented "Nigerian" ethnicity. A person can test to be some odd percent "Nigerian". But anyone familiar with Nigeria knows that's a nonsense concept. Nigeria was politically fabricated recently, and there are various different ethnic groups in the country.
We, as humans, seem to have a need to label people and cubbyhole them into groups. We also do this with dogs, cats, cattle, horses, etc. How many ways can you describe yourself?
A person can be assigned to any number of groups. Sometimes there is a hierarchy and sometime not. Sometimes straightforward, sometimes not. Of course, gender is also a designation as is age, marital status, occupation.
-American Citizen
--Indian
---Tribe
----Clan
-----Family status (elder, etc.)
I have friends who are male American Citizens, New Mexican, Hispano, Hispanic-white, Spanish, Mestizo, Zacatecas, Chichimeca-Aztec (Mexica), Christian, Catholic, parent...
I am a male American Citizen, New Mexican, Midwestern transplant, European, Caucasian, Irish-Pomeranian-German-English-Dutch, Boomer, non-veteran, retiree, Christian, Protestant, parent...
Some of those designations have importance to one person or another but not to everyone.
Plenty of nationality groups are considered genetic ethnicities, like English, French, Italian, etc.
Race/ethnicity is not a cut-and-dry concept. It's all made up.
This term doesn't make sense in regard to modern DNA science. An ethnicity is a group of people who share a common sense of identity. They need not share a common genetic profile. Italians are the perfect example. Northern Italians are genetically close to southern French, Swiss, or Austrians depending on region while Southern Italians are genetically closest to Greek Islanders.
On the other hand, very closely related genetic groups, like the English and Dutch have completely different ethnic identities.
Race and ethnicity are social constructs, but genetic communities have a scientific root in shared common ancestry that is demonstrable using modern technology.
Last edited by westsideboy; 10-20-2021 at 07:43 PM..
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