Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I was doing research on my mom's brick wall ancestor, Alexander, (known grandparents, unknown mother) and found that two male 2nd cousins from this line have slightly differing haplogroups.
One is I-PF4135 (tested at 23andMe) and the other is I-FT344905 (tested at FTDNA).
I'm not well versed in DNA haplogroups and their subclades - is this normal?
I know haplogroups can mutate over time but I'd read that only happens rarely and every few hundred years. I'm trying to figure out if this is an NPE situation, simply an error in testing or just a mutation.
I should note that the cousin tested at FTDNA (I-FT344905) matched the haplogroup of matches from Alexander's grandfather while the other cousin (I-PF4135) matches the haplogroup of Alexander's great-great grandfather. Yet if they both come from Alexander directly, how can this be?
I was doing research on my mom's brick wall ancestor, Alexander, (known grandparents, unknown mother) and found that two male 2nd cousins from this line have slightly differing haplogroups.
One is I-PF4135 (tested at 23andMe) and the other is I-FT344905 (tested at FTDNA).
I'm not well versed in DNA haplogroups and their subclades - is this normal?
I know haplogroups can mutate over time but I'd read that only happens rarely and every few hundred years. I'm trying to figure out if this is an NPE situation, simply an error in testing or just a mutation.
I should note that the cousin tested at FTDNA (I-FT344905) matched the haplogroup of matches from Alexander's grandfather while the other cousin (I-PF4135) matches the haplogroup of Alexander's great-great grandfather. Yet if they both come from Alexander directly, how can this be?
DNA is very complex. The lie that two blue eyed people can't have a brown eyed child is based on over simplification. We are not pea plants, it takes 10 alleles to determine eye color and brown is only dominant if 5 or more of the 10 are brown. The haplogroup is even more complex and what you said makes sense as one cousin has the haplo group of an ancestor and the other of a different ancestor. it is a 50 50 shot at which DNA someone will get from their parents. and that 50 50 is not the same for every child from the same parents. That's why in some families siblings don't look alike, one looks more like one parent and the other looks more like the other parent. I would trust 23 and Me, I don't know anything about FTDNA, but I suspect it is as reputeable. One that is less reputable is Ancestry.com in my opinion.
I was doing research on my mom's brick wall ancestor, Alexander, (known grandparents, unknown mother) and found that two male 2nd cousins from this line have slightly differing haplogroups.
One is I-PF4135 (tested at 23andMe) and the other is I-FT344905 (tested at FTDNA).
I'm not well versed in DNA haplogroups and their subclades - is this normal?
I know haplogroups can mutate over time but I'd read that only happens rarely and every few hundred years. I'm trying to figure out if this is an NPE situation, simply an error in testing or just a mutation.
I should note that the cousin tested at FTDNA (I-FT344905) matched the haplogroup of matches from Alexander's grandfather while the other cousin (I-PF4135) matches the haplogroup of Alexander's great-great grandfather. Yet if they both come from Alexander directly, how can this be?
It looks like you already asked this question on another forum in 2021, and the answer is that the FTDNA haplogroup is simply a subclade of the one in 23andMe, meaning a more recent branch of the same tree. Or rather, a more recent twig off the same branch. Everyone in the I-FT344905 haplogroup is also in the I-PF4135 haplogroup.
So it is not an NPE or an error. They are related through their paternal line.
The 23andMe haplogroup is about 2000 years old, and the I-FT344905 is a more recent branch off of that, which appeared about 300 years ago. The FTDNA test is good for more recent mutations which is why it's so expensive.
I was doing research on my mom's brick wall ancestor, Alexander, (known grandparents, unknown mother) and found that two male 2nd cousins from this line have slightly differing haplogroups.
One is I-PF4135 (tested at 23andMe) and the other is I-FT344905 (tested at FTDNA).
I'm not well versed in DNA haplogroups and their subclades - is this normal?
I-FT344905 is downstream of I-PF4135. It's completely normal for one cousin to be downstream of another, especially since they tested at different companies so the amount of SNPs/STRs included may not be the same. 23andMe uses SNPs, FTDNA uses STRs unless he took Big Y, which includes far more SNPs than 23andMe.
DNA is very complex. The lie that two blue eyed people can't have a brown eyed child is based on over simplification. We are not pea plants, it takes 10 alleles to determine eye color and brown is only dominant if 5 or more of the 10 are brown. The haplogroup is even more complex and what you said makes sense as one cousin has the haplo group of an ancestor and the other of a different ancestor. it is a 50 50 shot at which DNA someone will get from their parents. and that 50 50 is not the same for every child from the same parents.
That has nothing to do with haplogroups. Haplogroups come from Y and mtDNA where there is no recombination. Males inherit an exact copy of their Y chromosome from their fathers unless there's a spontaneous mutation, which doesn't happen often. Males do not inherit 50% of the Y chromosome, that only applies to autosomal DNA.
Quote:
That's why in some families siblings don't look alike, one looks more like one parent and the other looks more like the other parent. I would trust 23 and Me, I don't know anything about FTDNA, but I suspect it is as reputeable. One that is less reputable is Ancestry.com in my opinion.
Ancestry.com doesn't report on haplogroups. You may not have found their ethnicity report as reliable, but that has nothing to do with this.
I-FT344905 is downstream of I-PF4135. It's completely normal for one cousin to be downstream of another, especially since they tested at different companies so the amount of SNPs/STRs included may not be the same. 23andMe uses SNPs, FTDNA uses STRs unless he took Big Y, which includes far more SNPs than 23andMe.
Only BigY could result in a very recent haplogroup like I-FT344905 (and the "FT" prefix indicates it's a SNP used by FTDNA). STRs only predict very general haplogroups from thousands of years ago.
I was comparing the resolution of the different tests on the ISOGG website. 23andMe's Y-DNA testing is considered "basic" and includes 2,329 variants, while BigY can test for about 41,800 variants and is considered "high" resolution by ISOGG.
Thank you, everyone, for your replies! I knew the base letter was the same so I thought it was likely to be in the same haplogroup but I wasn't 100% certain. Maybe it's because 23andMe isn't quite as detailed as FTDNA in their Y-DNA analysis. But this clears that up for me so thank you again, everyone!
Maybe it also helps to say, the same person testing at both 23andMe and FTDNA BigY would have received the same "different" results.
The base letter isn't enough to go by, since "I" is about 43,000 years old and contains many different lineages.
Even I-PF4135, being 2000 years old, contains different lineages and surnames, but since the people you're looking at do have the same surname and are believed to be from the same lineage, the most likely explanation is that they are.
Usually an NPE is discovered when you match people of a completely different surname and haplogroup from the one expected. An NPE from the same lineage is rare but can happen, like if an ancestor adopted a nephew or cousin from that lineage.
Maybe it also helps to say, the same person testing at both 23andMe and FTDNA BigY would have received the same "different" results.
The base letter isn't enough to go by, since "I" is about 43,000 years old and contains many different lineages.
Even I-PF4135, being 2000 years old, contains different lineages and surnames, but since the people you're looking at do have the same surname and are believed to be from the same lineage, the most likely explanation is that they are.
Usually an NPE is discovered when you match people of a completely different surname and haplogroup from the one expected. An NPE from the same lineage is rare but can happen, like if an ancestor adopted a nephew or cousin from that lineage.
Well, it initially peaked my interest because of some DNA matches to the cousins being unusually low. I thought possibly it may explain that but either way, it's nice to have it verified as being the correct haplogroups.
That has nothing to do with haplogroups. Haplogroups come from Y and mtDNA where there is no recombination. Males inherit an exact copy of their Y chromosome from their fathers unless there's a spontaneous mutation, which doesn't happen often. Males do not inherit 50% of the Y chromosome, that only applies to autosomal DNA.
Ancestry.com doesn't report on haplogroups. You may not have found their ethnicity report as reliable, but that has nothing to do with this.
Thank you for explaining haplogroups.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
