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Here we go again.....I think I am going to ask a moderator to shut this thread down....seriously I am tired of this.
I started this thread to find out information. I didn't start the whole "socialist" debate....I just used that as a way to give examples of how Northern cities have failed as well, and that crime rates etc.... are not just issues in Southern states. I never said the North sucks. I was just trying to defend my own region by showing that other parts of the country have issues too. You are wrong about the next part. The bashing of the South (or what I at the time perceived to be bashing when the poster was just listing negative stats on the South) came before I started talking about socialism. I started talking about socialism AGAIN just now only because it was brought up just now by a poster who asked about another post I wrote.
Your post doesn't even make any sense.
I have already explained this stuff over and over. Next somebody is going to read this post I wrote just now as a response to you and they are going to nit pick and play twenty questions with me claiming that what I am saying here somehow contradicts what I said before.
At this point I am trying to make peace and posters like you keep bringing forth arguments not knowing what you are talking about. The post from me that you quote above was in response to another poster just now. I didn't just bring it up out of the blue. Gee whiz!
And I already see this one coming, so I am going to clarify right now.......NO I am NOT saying socialism is the only reason an area goes to the dumps...I have explained this over and over . I feel that when certain factors are in place, socialism CAN be a reason a city or an area doesn't do well. I only went into that to show another poster examples of parts of the North that have failed for various reasons a lot of times for similar reasons parts of the South don't do too well. I was only responding to a poster who went into negative stats on the South. He and I have made up so I am tired of explaining this. I never said the North sucks!
I think all we have to do is look at Northern Europe, in particular Scandinavia, to see that socialism works not only well, but wonders.
Low Crime. Beautiful people. Clean cities. Great health care. Secular society. Tolerant of alternative lifestyles. Committed employees. Beautiful people. Oh did I repeat myself?
Now let's compare to America and see how we stand up to that. Not very good, I'm afraid:
High crime. Obese people. Dirty cities that sprawl. No health care. Paranoid and highly religious society. Fearful of alternative lifestyles. Unhappy workforce. Obese people. Oh did I repeat myself?
This isn't meant to be rude, but seriously. On forums such as this I always hear about Northerners dying to move from their homes in Michigan, New Jersey, and New York, as well as Southerners complaining about their towns and cities getting swamped with implants. There appears to be a pattern here. It just seems everyone always wants to move to the South. Can the South sustain this many people moving in?
I currently live in northern Virginia it’s a very bizarre place because a great majority of the clients at my work are from NY, NJ, PA, MA (seems to be more lately). And even everyone I work with is from other states. Literally, I don’t work with 1 actual Virginian; I’m an outcast in my own state. Can you feel the love?
I don't know if the south can sustain the amount of people moving in, I can’t imagine what things are going to be like when I’m an old man. I have always thought regardless of where a person lives currently in America, they will by 60, make it to Florida regardless.
I don't know anyone around here who has any plans on moving South or has. Some guy that lived down the street did move to California a few years back but he was from there and he never did quite fit in in MN. Aside from that pretty much everyone stays in Minnesota if they move.
I think all we have to do is look at Northern Europe, in particular Scandinavia, to see that socialism works not only well, but wonders.
Low Crime. Beautiful people. Clean cities. Great health care. Secular society. Tolerant of alternative lifestyles. Committed employees. Beautiful people. Oh did I repeat myself?
Now let's compare to America and see how we stand up to that. Not very good, I'm afraid:
High crime. Obese people. Dirty cities that sprawl. No health care. Paranoid and highly religious society. Fearful of alternative lifestyles. Unhappy workforce. Obese people. Oh did I repeat myself?
You failed to mention other socialist countries that aren't as peachy and squeaky clean. Most socialist countries in Europe are suffering the worst financial problems. I really can't even begin to break down your post because it's not going to change your mind. China, Venezuela, Somali, etc are all socialist as well. Is Somalia low crime, clean cities, free health care, not paranoid of other religions? And before you say they are communist -- there have never been a true communist country. All people would work with no division of economic class, etc.. ALL of the countries I listed are strongly influenced by socialism.
You failed to mention other socialist countries that aren't as peachy and squeaky clean. Most socialist countries in Europe are suffering the worst financial problems. I really can't even begin to break down your post because it's not going to change your mind. China, Venezuela, Somali, etc are all socialist as well. Is Somalia low crime, clean cities, free health care, not paranoid of other religions? And before you say they are communist -- there have never been a true communist country. All people would work with no division of economic class, etc.. ALL of the countries I listed are strongly influenced by socialism.
Are we supposed to go through all of the Democracies that are doing horrible then?
Are we supposed to go through all of the Democracies that are doing horrible then?
My comeback exactly.
My point was to show that socialism can work and is not always a recipe for failed cities as the original poster claimed.
What people don't understand is you can have a democracy and be socialist. Socialism is not totalitarianism in every sense. You can have free elections and the citizens choose to vote this form of government in. Northern Europe is the best example.
Communist (not socialist) countries are different and have brutal totalitarian regimes to keep the government in total control of everything. They are not democracies. Socialist countries in Europe are democracies where there is a blend of capitalism and government control.
Does it work in every example? No. Where there is a lot of corruption and a bloated and undisciplined labor force (Greece, Spain, etc.) those countries are suffering due to cronyism and tax cheats. But you can say that America is suffering for the same reasons: cronyism (Haliburton) and tax cheats (offshore accounts).
But to say that every person from up North wants to move South to escape "socialism" is ludicrous. Those are Republican talking points that may have worked in the Reagan years, but decades of trickle-down/voodoo economics have been shown to be a failure to this nation, just as much as the Great Society programs have been failures. Not every socialist idea works in the U.S., but not every deregulated free-market tool works either. People have to be willing to admit this and stop painting themselves into ideological corners.
Surely the OP couldn't have meant "every person" literally. I'm a native-born Brooklynite, and I've never had even the tiniest desire to move to the South. (Perhaps the Southern mindset has trouble grasping this, but some of us here in the North--I won't go so far as to claim "every person"--actually like where we live!)
My point was to show that socialism can work and is not always a recipe for failed cities as the original poster claimed.
What people don't understand is you can have a democracy and be socialist. Socialism is not totalitarianism in every sense. You can have free elections and the citizens choose to vote this form of government in. Northern Europe is the best example.
Communist (not socialist) countries are different and have brutal totalitarian regimes to keep the government in total control of everything. They are not democracies. Socialist countries in Europe are democracies where there is a blend of capitalism and government control.
There are only TWO countries that can be considered "true" communist states. And I quote "true" because they technically aren't even fully communist by definition. I suggest doing a little research on what communism and socialism before you denounce my post. North Korea and Cuba. Care to mention how Somalia is communist? Or Venezuela? Russia? They aren't. They are more SOCIALIST than communist. Needless to say.. there aren't any true socialist or communist countries.
The government you are supporting and advocated for implementation here are mixed-market economies that are just very far left on the economic scale.
And a lot of the smaller "socialist" Scandinavian countries benefit from being supporting from larger countries providing them with markets and protection so they don't need to spend money on expensive things like national defense.
It's just funny because true liberalism promotes: weak government, free market, individual freedom, etc...
And can you explain how "socialism" has been able to support countries for a long time and staying afloat? There are even concerns in Sweden about the aging workforce and how to they are struggling to provide the benefits to its citizens. And in reality, the Swedes and Norwegians rely on the government to solve things, which is kind of the opposite of what liberalism actually is striving for.
So again, please tell me how Scandinavian Countries are strictly "socialist".. They aren't. Just another mixed-market economy far left on the economic scale that's economy is still 50% "private". Also, Scandinavian countries are almost entirely homogeneous in population which allows easier distribution of wealth in a political sense far easier than in USA. I mean heck, Norway itself benefits from oil to provide for it's 4 million people, which is the population of Kentucky.. far less than our 300,000,000.
Last edited by WeSoHood; 06-30-2010 at 09:27 AM..
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