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Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by Maintainschaos
There's a pretty strong tie in southern Illinois and the St. Louis area. If I'm not mistaken, 25-30% of the St. Louis metro area is in Illinois.
Not just southern Illinois. I would say both the southern and central sections of Illinois have ties to Missouri. Hannibal, Quincy, Jacksonville, and Springfield are all tied together (actually, Springfield I'd say is bipolar...it's got ties to both west and east central illinois, as well as southern Illinois). Approximately the southern half of Illinois I would say is more like Missouri than Iowa...I've always felt that central and west central Illinois had much stronger ties to St. Louis than to Chicago. East Central Illinois is more heavily tied to Chicago. Extreme southern Illinois is a lot like Kentucky.
Some people have said that Louisiana and Arkansas don't have a strong tie, but IMO it's Mississippi and Louisiana. Maybe SE La has a strong tie because there is no river to cross betwwen states but the northern part of the only has like two bridges, one being I-20 the other US84/65 at Natchez. I live by Texas and never hear any news about Miss. The ties aren't real big. OTOH, Ark and La border counties and parishes frequently trade together and attend many of each other's festivals and fairs. So relationships have a lot to do exactly where you live. Also many hunters cross the state lines legally for that purpose.
Not just southern Illinois. I would say both the southern and central sections of Illinois have ties to Missouri. Hannibal, Quincy, Jacksonville, and Springfield are all tied together (actually, Springfield I'd say is bipolar...it's got ties to both west and east central illinois, as well as southern Illinois). Approximately the southern half of Illinois I would say is more like Missouri than Iowa...I've always felt that central and west central Illinois had much stronger ties to St. Louis than to Chicago. East Central Illinois is more heavily tied to Chicago. Extreme southern Illinois is a lot like Kentucky.
Yeah, some of those towns in west central Illinois might be more tied to Missouri. I had lunch at a town in far western Illinois while passing through, and it did feel like Missouri--though I don't know if German ancestry is also very prevalent in Missouri outside of St. Louis.
I'd have to disagree about Illinois and Missouri, as well as Arkansas and Oklahoma. All of the parts of Illinois that are on the latitude of Missouri share commonalities with it. Nothing magical happens when you cross the state line. Same thing with Arkansas and Oklahoma. I would say that Oklahoma shares a great deal in common with Arkansas culturally, linguistically, etc. In addition, Northern Florida has a lot in common with Alabama, and Western KAnsas a great deal in common with Colorado. I'd have to disagree with all of these observations to be quite honest.
Pretty much every state-border region shares commonality but it's important to look at the state as a whole. Does Wichita have anything in common with Denver? I think not but it does share commonality with Omaha. Little Rock has a lot in common with Memphis and Jackson, MS but less ties to Tulsa or OK City and even less to New Orleans. Northwest Arkansas (including Ft Smith) however probably identifies with Oklahoma moreso than Little Rock.
That is also an area of highly changing terrain however so that influences some people's perception. You can really notice it when traveling west on I-40 that going west of Little Rock the terrain gets noticeably drier and tree height gradually reduces until you get to Central Oklahoma where the trees are pretty much shrubs. Go farther west and trees disappear altogether before becoming semi-arid near the Oklahoma-Texas panhandle border.
I definitely see the connection between Texas an New Mexico since the eastern 1/3 (1/2?*) of New Mexico is cuturally very much aligned with Texas. It is mostly White, Baptist, Cattle, Oil, Natural Gas, Pecan, and Peanut country and the accents are unmistakably Texan.
Point taken, but I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say a third of New Mexico. A few tiers of counties along the Texas border, yes...as they were mostly settled by Texas/Southern migrants. Here are a couple of interesting links which kinda show this:
Personally, while I don't really see any particular "rivalry" or "anomosities" between Texas and New Mexico, I don't -- and never did -- see any strong ties either. True, they share the often broadly applied label of both being "Southwestern". But historically and culturally speaking -- and taking the states as a wholes -- they are part of two quite different "Southwests". Texas in the original sense of being "western South", and New Mexico as in "southern West"...with not much "Southern" about it.
LATER EDIT: BTW -- the second map is one of the approximate extent of "Southern American English", based on numerous sources.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,101,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colts
Yeah, some of those towns in west central Illinois might be more tied to Missouri. I had lunch at a town in far western Illinois while passing through, and it did feel like Missouri--though I don't know if German ancestry is also very prevalent in Missouri outside of St. Louis.
Oh yes it is! Look at a demographic map and you'll see that most of the counties in Missouri are majority German. Even southwest Missouri is more German. Southeast Missouri is the only part of the state that really is not German. The northern half of the state is very German, and at least 50% of the southern half is heavily German.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,101,594 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02
Pretty much every state-border region shares commonality but it's important to look at the state as a whole. Does Wichita have anything in common with Denver? I think not but it does share commonality with Omaha. Little Rock has a lot in common with Memphis and Jackson, MS but less ties to Tulsa or OK City and even less to New Orleans. Northwest Arkansas (including Ft Smith) however probably identifies with Oklahoma moreso than Little Rock.
That is also an area of highly changing terrain however so that influences some people's perception. You can really notice it when traveling west on I-40 that going west of Little Rock the terrain gets noticeably drier and tree height gradually reduces until you get to Central Oklahoma where the trees are pretty much shrubs. Go farther west and trees disappear altogether before becoming semi-arid near the Oklahoma-Texas panhandle border.
That's solely topography you're talking about. Culturally and linguistically there is not a lot of difference between Oklahoma and Arkansas.
Hi, this is my first post on this website, and it seems to me that Massachusetts (my state) and Vermont don't particularly have many ties other than that they are both in new england. if I am wrong please4 don't hesitate to correct me.
Oklahoma and Texas hate each other because of football. The states really are quite similar in a lot of ways and there are a lot of ties especially in Central and Western Oklahoma. Eastern Oklahoma and the Fort Smith area in Arkansas are closely tied together but the rest of Arkansas is more tied with Tennessee and Mississippi. In Fort Smith you see a lot of cowboy hats, which is common in Oklahoma but in Little Rock you don't see them as much. I would say for Arkansas, Louisiana takes the cake for the state with the least ties to.
LOL I was going to bring this one up, myself! Yeah, I think are right on that. There is a sorta rivalry between Texas and Oklahoma...but -- and no offence to Oklahomans -- it is really more of the type existing between two brothers....as in little brother who has historically lived in the larger shadow of his much older one. Sort of a "family thing"....but they usually align on the same side of the creek in national matters and stick up for each other in squabbles with the yankee! LOL
Football however....welllllll...that is different! It is "Civil War" in Dallas at the Cotton Bowl each year!
Another one I thought of -- in case it hasn't been mentioned before -- is Missouri and Kansas. I believe they have animosities that date back to the days of the War Between the States. There were so-called "Border Wars" fought between the Missourians and Kansans. (Missouri had strong Southern sympathies and Kansas was firmly pro-Union).
I have never really spent much time in Missouri, but my ex-wife was from Kansas, and I used to visit up there quite a bit. It was never really overt, but when things like this would come up, I always detected, among natives, a certain disdain for Missouri.
I would be interested in your take on this one, StLouisian...
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