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No and I think they'll reinforce the definition of whiteness.
1. Contrary to census statistics, most hispanics are actually mixed race
2. They tend to not identify as white even when they do look white because of our culture promoting racial division and lumping together linguistic and racial groups.
I would say most hispanic whites are accepted as white because guess what: they're white.
Op, in the future, I think the "whitest" that Hispanics will look will probably be along the lines of George P. Bush (the son of former Florida Governor Jeb Bush). Yes, he looks mostly european or white but you can definitely tell there is non-european in his phenotype. As a white person, I would not put him in the same category as myself or most of my family. Those characteristics will always exist in the descendents of Hispanics. With the way demographics are trending today the great grandchildren of modern day Hispanics are not going to be tall, rosy-skinned, blonde and blue-eyed.
Obviously, as is apparent in this thread, some white (that is, fully European descended) Americans will come to accept Hispanics like Jeb Bush as part of their own race, but there will be whites like myself and many others who don't. So I am sure the discussion we shared here over the past couple of days will continue to be repeated by others for centuries to come.
No and I think they'll reinforce the definition of whiteness.
1. Contrary to census statistics, most hispanics are actually mixed race
2. They tend to not identify as white even when they do look white because of our culture promoting racial division and lumping together linguistic and racial groups.
I would say most hispanic whites are accepted as white because guess what: they're white.
My point exactly! +1
Saying real White Hispanics aren't 'white' is essentially saying people like Ted Cruz, Cameron Diaz, Charlie Sheen, and Louis CK aren't white. Only in America. Would anyone mistake any of the aforementioned folks as Mesitzo or Quadroon? I doubt it.
There is a difference between Caucasian and white. I think people need to understand the difference before bring North Africa into this conversation.
Caucasian has no real meaning in modern parlance, and was just used to mean European in the late 19th century as a synonym of white for idiosyncratic reasons (people at that time thought the Caucasus was where "white" people came from. Most Americans don't even know what it means - look at how after the Boston marathon some news stories reported the Tsarnaev brothers were "not caucasian."
The proper term in genetics is West Eurasian which is inclusive of basically all the populations in Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and much of India and Central Asia.
"White" in contrast is a category which is a social construction. You can see this, for example, in how people from the Middle East who are from Muslim backgrounds are generally not seen as white, but those who are from Christian backgrounds (Ralph Nader, Helen Thomas, John Abizaid, Kathy Najimy, Tony Shalhoub, or John H. Sununu, for example), are just seen as being white.
I don't know if Latinos will by and large self-identify as white in the U.S. 50 years from now. I do know they have high rates of intermarriage with white Americans, and tend to be monolingual English speakers by the third generation. Quite likely a high proportion of people by then will be 1/2 to 1/8 Latino (or Asian, for that matter), more or less look white, and be acculturated to mainstream American culture. It might not be thought of as "white" American culture any longer, but I'm still pretty near certain that black culture will exist and remain largely separate.
Saying real White Hispanics aren't 'white' is essentially saying people like Ted Cruz, Cameron Diaz, Charlie Sheen, and Louis CK aren't white. Only in America. Would anyone mistake any of the aforementioned folks as Mesitzo or Quadroon? I doubt it.
All of those people you mention are only half-Hispanic and are not 100% Hispanic. Therefore, they are not great examples of White Hispanics.
Caucasian has no real meaning in modern parlance, and was just used to mean European in the late 19th century as a synonym of white for idiosyncratic reasons (people at that time thought the Caucasus was where "white" people came from. Most Americans don't even know what it means - look at how after the Boston marathon some news stories reported the Tsarnaev brothers were "not caucasian."
The proper term in genetics is West Eurasian which is inclusive of basically all the populations in Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and much of India and Central Asia.
"White" in contrast is a category which is a social construction. You can see this, for example, in how people from the Middle East who are from Muslim backgrounds are generally not seen as white, but those who are from Christian backgrounds (Ralph Nader, Helen Thomas, John Abizaid, Kathy Najimy, Tony Shalhoub, or John H. Sununu, for example), are just seen as being white.
I don't know if Latinos will by and large self-identify as white in the U.S. 50 years from now. I do know they have high rates of intermarriage with white Americans, and tend to be monolingual English speakers by the third generation. Quite likely a high proportion of people by then will be 1/2 to 1/8 Latino (or Asian, for that matter), more or less look white, and be acculturated to mainstream American culture. It might not be thought of as "white" American culture any longer, but I'm still pretty near certain that black culture will exist and remain largely separate.
Nevermind, the better question is: you're telling me Hispanic is a race?
When filling out official census sheets I would say no but in every day society in the United States, I would say yes because most are viewed and perceived as being distinct from Whites, Blacks, etc. Try going up a group of Puerto Ricans in NYC and start calling them "White" and see how many strange looks you'll get.
Nevermind, the better question is: you're telling me Hispanic is a race?
Th e second sentence isn't a better question and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. No one here claimed Hispanic is a race. We all know that Hispanic is an ethnicity and Hispanics can be from many different races. The issue here is that most Hispanics are not white and will never be white yet they think through intermarriage they will be and most of them mark white on census forms when really they should be checking the "mixed" box.
Th e second sentence isn't a better question and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. No one here claimed Hispanic is a race. We all know that Hispanic is an ethnicity and Hispanics can be from many different races. The issue here is that most Hispanics are not white and will never be white yet they think through intermarriage they will be and most of them mark white on census forms when really they should be checking the "mixed" box.
The crucial question is how mixed is mixed enough? Clearly the average Mexican is Mestizo, and thus mixed race. But what if you're talking about a "white" Cuban who is genetically 90% white and 10% black? What if you're talking about someone like Louis CK who is 1/4th Mexican? In both cases they have some nonwhite ancestry, but not enough to change the basic impression of whiteness.
This becomes crucial because, as I said, in the next several generations a ton of Latinos will marry out. Currently around a quarter of Latinos marry interracially, but the number is much higher (36%) for those native-born in the U.S. Their half-Latino children will probably speak very little Spanish and be more likely still to marry generic "white" Americans. Someone half Latino/half white will probably be around 25% nonwhite genetically, if they have kids with a white American, they will be around 12.5% nonwhite.
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+1